Hop water, as it’s known, can deliver on what so many non-alcoholic India pale ales cannot: vibrant, fresh flavor that smacks of lupulin, the resinous substance that gives hops their characteristic aroma and flavor. That hop water pours clear can be visually jarring at first, but the lush scent of citrus or tropical fruit-flavored hops quickly overcomes any visual hesitation.

The product largely credited with igniting a surge in hop-water production is called Hop Kick and it’s made by the John I. Haas company under the umbrella of the BarthHaas group, a hop company. Officially, Hop Kick is a “hop-derived aqueous extract that’s clear, flowable, and completely soluble in cold-side beverage operations.”

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Jeff Dailey, the sensory manager at John I. Haas, says the product’s origins can be traced to the mid-2010s, when brewers were on a quest to cram previously unheard-of amounts of hops into IPAs for maximum flavor.

“It was this kind of Manhattan Project, finding the silver bullet of liquid dry hopping,” says Dailey. “It’s understood that it’s very difficult to be economical above two pounds per barrel for the very hoppiest of beers.” There was great demand for an efficient liquid dry-hopping product, he continues.

Though it was never fully embraced in beer, the product gained steam amid the rise of hard seltzers several years ago. It only gained more traction with the arrival of the better-for-you drinks movement. Last year at the annual Craft Brewers Conference in Nashville, brewers gathered to try Hop Kick, which they dropped into cups of fizzy water. It was clear many walked away impressed; in the following months, hop water products began arriving on shelves.

Currently, there are well-known hop water entries from large breweries like Sierra Nevada, Revolution Brewing, Athletic Brewing, Austin Beerworks and Lagunitas.

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“Our pitch is that it’s delicious, hop-forward sparkling water, that is zero alcohol, zero calories, zero carbs and gluten-free,” says Paul Schneider, the head of brewing operations at Pittsburgh’s Cinderlands Beer Co.

It’s not just for the non-alcoholic crowd, either. Expect to see hop water on brewery taproom and restaurant menus more and more in the coming months. “When you’re drinking for a longer session, you might want to break it up, but not get off the flavor that you’re having with beer,” says Schneider.

It can also work in settings that don’t call for alcohol. “We also want it to be sparkling water replacement if you’re on Spindrift or Lacroix or whatever else. It’s a great stand-in at lunch,” he says. “People who love IPA and love hops, and this helps that craving outside of regular drinking sessions.”

The Best Hop Waters to Drink Right Now

Sierra Nevada Hop Splash

The makers of the country’s most famous and beloved pale ale certainly know their way around hops. This spritzy and refreshing hop water—which also comes in a blood orange version—is just right for lazy afternoons by the pool.  

$8.99 Total Wine & More

Revolution Super Zero

The Chicago-based brewery released its fruit-forward hop version of hop water last year. Embracing the flavors of the Nectaron and Sabro hop varieties, this hop water has pleasant flavors of pineapple and tangerine

$8.99 Shar’s Fine Wine & Spirits

Lagunitas Hoppy Refresher

A lively mix of old–school hops and new ones, this hop water is also available in bottles. Aromas of lemon and lime mix with an earthy hop profile for a lupulin boost that perks up the tastebuds.  

$8.99 Instacart

Athletic Brewing Daypack

This fruit-flavored hop water is made by non-alcoholic beer maker Athletic Brewing. It’s similar to a La Croix, but with the hop base, mixed with flavors like black cherry, mango and blood orange.  

$8.99 Total Wine & More

Cinderlands Hop Run

Made with Citra and Mosaic hops—two of the most popular hop varieties today—this hop water scratches the itch for modern IPA drinkers, minus the haze.  

$ Varies Cinderlands Beer

Austin Beerworks Hop Water

Bursting with floral and botanical hop aromas, this was one of the first hop waters to hit the market, serving as an inspiration to other makers. At the bar, on the boat, in the morning—this one always hits the spot.  

$8.49 Total Wine & More

FAQ

What Is Hop Water?

Hop water is carbonated water flavored with fruit and infused with the flavor of hops. It is non-alcoholic, gluten-free, often sugar-free and with no-to-low carbs. Some companies add additional fruit flavors, like you would see with other traditional seltzers. It is a NA alternative to hop-forward beers, like IPA.

Is Hop Water Alcoholic?

It is not. It’s a non-alcoholic beverage that can be sold at grocery stores or served alongside beer at bars and restaurants.

How Is Hop Water Made?

“We use the same high-quality, carbon-filtered water that we use for brewing beer, then we steep hops in it to extract the flavors and aromas we want to highlight,” says Kyle Ingram, brand director at Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. “We finish the product by carbonating it with CO2 that we’ve recaptured during other beer-brewing processes at the brewery, and we then flash-pasteurize it for safety and quality. It’s premium, delicious and it’s nice to know that there are some elements of sustainability involved in the making of it, too.”

The post Meet Hop Water, the NA Answer to Beer appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

One needn’t be completely abstinent from alcohol to enjoy NA drinks, although people—especially young adults—are increasingly taking that path. Perhaps you’re simply reevaluating your relationship with alcohol, or looking for a change of drinking pace. Whatever your reasoning, the fact remains that there are a ton of products to sort through.

When it comes to NA wine, many drinkers have similar questions: What exactly are non-alcoholic wines? And how do you find the best ones? Read on for our simple guide to this expanding category, plus bottle recommendations from Wine Enthusiast professionals and fawning customer reviews.

What Are Non-Alcoholic Wines?

There are two main types of non-alcoholic wines. There are wine alternatives, which resemble wine in flavor and texture, but do not contain alcohol, and dealcoholized wines, which are traditionally-made wines with their alcohol removed.

With regard to the latter, according to the Food and Drug Administration, wines labeled “alcohol-removed” and “dealcoholized” are only used when a wine goes through a specific process to remove most or all of the alcohol present. Such a bottle might also have the terms “zero alcohol” or “alcohol-free” on its label.

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How Are Non-Alcoholic Wines Made?

There are four methods approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for removing alcohol from wine, reports the Institute of Food Technologists. Alcohol can be removed through thin-film evaporation (called vacuum distillation), reverse osmosis, spinning cone distillation and thermal gradient processing. But the two most common ways are vacuum distillation and reverse osmosis.

In vacuum distillation, the beverage is heated to the point where the alcohol evaporates. During the practice of reverse osmosis, wine is run “through a filter, and the filter separates the alcohol based on the size of the molecule,” Terry Donnelly, chairman and CEO of Hill Street Beverage Company Inc. told Wine Enthusiast. “Alcohol is a bigger molecule than water, so you can literally run it through like a microscopic strainer and filter the alcohol off.”

In comparison, wine alternatives are designed to mimic the flavor, texture and experience of wine by using a variety of ingredients other than wine. Some options may include tea, kombucha or other fruit juices. Some wine alternatives simply feel like a nice booze-free beverage, while others use winemaking techniques to replicate the experience of tannin, flavors and acidity of wine.

There’s no shortage of NA wines to try. If you’re wondering where to buy non-alcoholic wines, we can help you there, too. We’ve compiled  a list of top-rated bottles on Amazon, Total Wine & More and other online retailers. To make the list, each bottle (only one per brand) needed to have at least four stars or higher. Check them out below.

The Best Non-Alcoholic Sparkling Wines

Thomson & Scott Noughty Dealcoholized Sparkling Chardonnay

Customer Rating: 4 Stars on Amazon

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

This bottling comes at the recommendation of Writer-at-Large Emily Saladino, who reviews wines from Hungary, Greece and Georgia. “This is my go-to bottle to bring to or serve parties all year long,” she shares. “It’s crisp, refreshing and truly tastes like wine. Best of all, because it’s dealcoholized, everyone can enjoy it, whether they’re sober, cutting back or simply want something delicious in their glass.”

 

$25 Amazon

Leitz – Eins Zwei Zero Sparkling Riesling

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Writer-at-Large Christina Pickard, who reviews wines from Australia, New Zealand, England and New York, is a fan of this zero-proof offering from German producer Leitz.

“Bubbles can forgive a lot of average winemaking, particularly in the new ocean of underwhelming non-alcoholic products currently on the market,” she says. “In the case of this wine, however, the winemaking is there. The fizz is an added bonus.”

In a recent Instagram post, German wine expert Valerie Kathawala concurs, calling the wine a “most surprisingly satisfying simulacrum of real-deal Rieslingsekt: an elegant and super-fine perlage, just enough ‘dosage’ to read dry but convey Riesling’s characteristic fruit, a bright line of citric acidity, and a pleasing weight and body—the holy grail in non-alcs.”

$22 The Zero Proof

Cave de Ribeauville Rib0 De-Alcoholized Sparkling

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Digital Senior Editor Sara Ventiera was blown away by this offering when she sampled it at Anajak Thai in Sherman Oaks, California, where sommelier Ian Krupp put it on the menu.

“Produced by serious winemakers out of Alsace, it’s light and crunchy with nice bubbles,” Ventiera says. “I was surprised by how closely it resembled the real thing—and it paired perfectly with the spicy drunken noodles and laarb meatballs.”

$18 Amazon

Thomson & Scott Noughty Alcohol-Free Sparkling Rosé

Customer Rating: 4.6 Stars on Noughty

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Made with organic grapes, this rosé sparkler is vegan, alcohol-free and fruity. Pop this bottle open for a special occasion or any night of the week. Wine Enthusiast Tasting Director Anna-Christina Cabrales is a big fan.

“Amanda Thomson, former BBC Arts Broadcaster and super wine aficionado designed Noughty AF with the wine connoisseur in mind,” Cabrales says. The texture and flavor are spot on, with “lots of soft red berries, sweet spices and well-integrated acidity, making it a great aperitif or a versatile pairing.

$22 Boisson

Wölffer Estate Spring In a Bottle Non-Alcoholic Wine

Customer Rating: 5 Stars on Total Wine

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Made in Germany using Pinot Meunier, Pinot Noir, Saint Laurent and Dornfelder grapes, this bright and rich sparkling rosé offers red berries on the nose and palate. A vibrant acidity and elegant fruitiness is balanced by minerality and a long finish. Ideal with pork, rich chicken dishes and even cheese courses, this versatile sparkler is both enduring and complex. With consistent high ratings, this wine is one of the best non-alcoholic wines on the market, in any category. 

What Customers Are Saying: “Deliciously dry,” one reviewer writes. “Phenomenal dry sparkling rosé. Best alcohol-free wine I’ve had.”

$18 Total Wine & More

Freixenet Sparkling Alcohol-Removed Wine

Customer Rating: 5 Stars on Total Wine

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: .05%

This fruity, sparkling non-alcoholic wine comes from Spain by a brand that already produces alcoholic varieties. Each sip brings flavors of raspberry, strawberry, tropical fruits and floral notes. It’s best served with light dishes like seafood or grilled chicken but is a great addition to a cheese spread.  

What Customers Are Saying: “The rosé is crisp, fruity and refreshing. Dryness is comparable to other good NA sparkling wines,” one reviewer said. “Some sweetness. Not too sweet, but not bone dry. I personally prefer the rosé over the white for a little extra fruitiness. Raspberries and a little citrus for me. Great on its own or with food.” 

$12 Total Wine & More

St. Regis Non-Alcoholic Brut

Customer Rating: 4.2 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: .05%

Made with Chardonnay grapes sourced from France, this sparkler can be sipped on its own or mixed into a drink for a NA mocktail. Customers consider it to be one of the best non-alcoholic sparkling wines around.

What Customers Are Saying: “As a regular Champagne drinker,” one sparkling fan wrote. “I was not disappointed in this offering. [I’m] always trying to get flavor with less alcohol units. This was a decent substitute!”

$13 Total Wine & More

Pierre Chavin Perle Rose Non-Alcoholic Sparkling Rosé

Customer Rating: 4.7 Stars on Amazon

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: .05%

We think some of the greatest things in life come with bubbles. Luckily, with Almost Zero, you can still indulge in something sparkling sans booze. This dry vegan wine offers notes of tropical and citrus fruit, making it perfect to sip on its own or mix into drinks like mimosas.

What Customers Are Saying: “It was a joy to discover this product,” one reviewer wrote. “We have always enjoyed mimosas for brunch, but previous alternative [option’s] taste was lacking. This product has a very good ‘brut’ taste, and the bubbles are just right!”

$32 Amazon

Chatêau De Fleur Non-Alcoholic Sparkling Wine Champagnette

Customer Review: 4 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: <.05%

New Zealand is known for its Sauvignon Blanc, and now, imbibers can enjoy one of the country’s signature grapes sans alcohol.

What Customers Are Saying: “Best non-alcoholic wine I’ve tasted,” wrote one reviewer. “[It] does not taste watered down.” Another fan of this white wine wrote, “The closest you will come to the taste of Sauvignon Blanc without the alcohol. Refreshing tart grapefruit notes with a whiff of tannins. Not sweet like grape juice. Please keep this in stock!”

$17 Amazon

Almost Zero Sparkling Non-Alcoholic Dry Wine

Customer Rating: 4.7 Stars on Amazon

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: .05%

We think some of the greatest things in life come with bubbles. Luckily, with Almost Zero, you can still indulge in something sparkling sans booze. This dry vegan wine offers notes of tropical and citrus fruit, making it perfect to sip on its own or mix into drinks like mimosas.

What Customers Are Saying: “It was a joy to discover this product,” one reviewer wrote. “We have always enjoyed mimosas for brunch, but previous alternative [option’s] taste was lacking. This product has a very good ‘brut’ taste, and the bubbles are just right!”

$15 Total Wine & More

Rondel Zero Non-Alcoholic Cava

Customer Rating: 4.3 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Spanish winemakers have been making sparkling wine via the traditional method since the early 1870s. Those who wish to partake in the festivities with a glass of bubbly sans booze can pour a glass of Rondel Zero Non-Alcoholic Cava.

What Customers Are Saying: “[It was] very good and [I] will purchase it again,” said one bubbly drinker. “[It] was nice and classy [with] the right amount of bubbles … If I had known it was this good I would have bought a case.”

$11 Total Wine & More

The Best Non-Alcoholic White Wines

Fre Sauvignon Blanc Non-Alcoholic Wine

Customer Rating: 5.0 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.5%

With notes of green grass and plenty of tropical fruit, California’s FRE Sauvignon Blanc offers up a clean, crisp wine that is characteristic of the grape variety. A round, supple finish closes off this undeniably delicious white–one of the best in the category.

What Customers Are Saying: “I bought this wine expecting grape juice, but it was not,” one drinker writes. “It was crisp, with notes of pear, and had the consistency and texture of wine. The absolute best part is no alcohol so no side effects. Delicious!!”

$9 Total Wine & More

Giesen Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 0% Alcohol

Customer Rating: 4.0 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: <.05%

New Zealand is known for its Sauvignon Blanc, and now, imbibers can enjoy one of the country’s signature grapes, but without the alcohol. Grassy and mineral, this wine drinks like a true, crisp Marlborough white, and pairs well with everything from lean meat and fish to ripe cheeses.

What Customers Are Saying: “Best non-alcoholic wine I’ve tasted,” wrote one reviewer. “[It] does not taste watered down.” Another fan of this white wine wrote, “The closest you will come to the taste of Sauvignon Blanc without the alcohol. Refreshing tart grapefruit notes with a whiff of tannins. Not sweet like grape juice. Please keep this in stock!”

$14 Total Wine & More

Magic Box ‘Vanish’ Non-Alcoholic Riesling

Customer Rating: 4.0 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.4%

Hailing from Germany, this citrus-driven wine offers up plenty of minerality, as well as Riesling’s signature petrol aromas. A lingering acidity on the back palate keeps this wine clean and refreshing.

What Customers Are Saying: “Tasty,” one reviewer offers. “One of the better non-alcoholic wines I’ve tasted. I would purchase it again.”

$10 Total Wine & More

The Best Non-Alcoholic Red and Rosé Wines

Fre White Zinfandel

Customer Rating: 4.3 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: <.05%

Before rosé was readily available across the U.S., pink wine lovers drank white Zinfandel, which was first made, marketed and sold by Sutter Home in the 1970s. Now, the company’s Fre White Zinfandel offers those same fruity flavors without the buzz.

What Customers Are Saying: “This is actually really, really good,” one shopper raved. “I am shocked, to be honest. I was expecting it to be super sweet and it’s not! I just quit drinking a year ago and this is the first n/a wine that I really like—for a cool summer option you won’t be disappointed.”

$7 Total Wine & More

Giesen Red Blend Non-Alcoholic Wine

Customer Rating: 4 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.5%

Crushed red berries, soft plum and a hint of oak define this blend. Pair it with rich meats like lamb, beef or even game birds; this full-bodied wine can hold up to nearly anything you throw at it.

What Customers Are Saying: “A really good 0% alcohol option that includes my preferred characteristics: full-bodied, fruity and dry,” shares one reviewer.

$14 Total Wine & More

Be Free Rosé Non-Alcoholic Wine

Customer Rating: 4 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: .05%

This non-alcoholic rosé allows all to enjoy the unofficial drink of summer. It’s a light bodied blend that exhibits watermelon and cherry flavors while not being overly sweet. Simply pour this in a glass, call up some family or friends and you have everything you need for the perfect summer afternoon.

What Customers Are Saying: “I was not sure what to expect but was pleasantly surprised by the rosé. I like it so much that I will try other kinds,” wrote one reviewer.

$10 Total Wine & More

Ariel Cabernet Sauvignon Non-Alcoholic Wine

Customer Rating: 4 Stars on Amazon

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: <.05%

Red wine drinkers looking to cut back on alcohol will appreciate this oak-aged Cabernet Sauvignon made by Ariel Vineyards. Sumptuous, soft and long-finishing, this wine pairs well with red meats and roasts.

What Customers Are Saying: “[It] has the true flavor of Cabernet without the alcohol,” one reviewer wrote. “Delicious with a steak!”

$10 Total Wine & More

The Best Non-Alcoholic Wine Alternatives

Martini & Rossi Floreale Non Alcoholic

Customer Rating: 5.0 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: 0.5%

Martini & Rossi has come to the table with an aperitivo inspired by their classic vermouth. Fruity and balanced, this non-alcoholic and herbaceous drink is ideal for sipping at the beginning–or end–of a meal.

What Customers Are Saying: “One of the best non-alcohol products on the market,” one drinker shares. “It is deep in flavor and satisfying. Tastes like a fine-quality sipping vermouth.”

$23 Total Wine & More

Stella Rosa Peach Non-Alcoholic

Customer Rating: 4.6 Stars on Total Wine & More

Type: Dealcoholized Wine

Alcohol Level: <.05%

Stella Rosa has been making wine in California since before Prohibition. This dealcoholized peach offering is favored by those who love fruity wines. It’s a little sweet and full of round, fruity flavors, perfect at the end of a meal or served with savory cheeses.

What Customers Are Saying: “I was pleasantly surprised by this non-alcoholic drink,” wrote one reviewer. “The peach taste is subtle but very delicious. I enjoyed this and will definitely buy it again.

$7 Total Wine & More

Belvoir Fruit Farms Elderflower Rose Lemonade

Customer Rating: 4.3 Stars of Amazon

Type: Wine Alternative

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Made from carbonated water, elderflower, lemon juice and elderberry, this alcohol-free wine alternative is perfect for topping off a mocktail or sipping straight up. For those looking for a sweeter option, this is a great pick for a mild, floral flavor.

What Customers Are Saying: “Delicious, mildly sweet, great taste of elderflower with a hint of rose,” one reviewer noted. “Wonderfully different, light summer drink.”

$11 Amazon

TÖST All-Natural Alcohol-Free Sparkling Beverage

Customer Rating: 4.3 Stars on Amazon

Type: Wine Alternative

Alcohol Level: 0.0%

Though not technically a wine, this wine alternative is made from sparkling white tea, cranberry and ginger to mimic the flavors of a glass of your favorite white. This dry sparkling drink has a refreshing flavor of citrus and fruit.

What Customers Are Saying: “Loved this a lot. Had a tea flavor to it and was frothy like beer. Really nice after a long day and perfect if you’re trying to cut back or quit drinking wine,” one reviewer raved.

$30 Amazon

Red Clay and Red Ember Proxies (Set of Four)

Customer Rating: 4.2 Stars on Proxies

Type: Wine Alternative

Alcohol Level: <.05%

Along with grapes, Proxies blends together teas, spices and fruits into different ferments to imitate the taste of wine. This four-pack comes with two different options. To start, there’s the Red Clay, which the company describes as “tart, tannic and medium-bodied” and notes it pairs well with everything from mushrooms to burgers. Then there’s the Red Ember, which is described as “big and bold with layers of dark fruit and rich coffee,” and a great pairing for steak.

What Customers Are Saying: “I love how unique the tastes are and how well they go with food,” wrote one reviewer. “It does everything I want from wine and without the buzz!”

$98 Proxies

FAQs

Does Non-Alcoholic Wine Have Alcohol?

Any NA wine that has undergone the fermentation process will have trace amounts of alcohol, often in the realm of .5%. This is similar to commercial kombucha.

How to Pick a Non-Alcoholic Wine

Like any other bottle of wine, choosing a non-alcoholic bottle is based on your personal preferences. Read online reviews or ask for personal recommendations to know if a particular bottle will meet your tastes.

How Do You Store Non-Alcoholic Wine?

Much like with regular wine, you’ll want to store your unopened non-alcoholic bottles in a cool, dry place. The refrigerator for both reds and whites, of course, works fine. But don’t leave these bottles lying around for too long. They are meant to be consumed young, so you’ll want to pop the cork within a couple months of purchasing them.

How Long Does Non-Alcoholic Wine Last After Opening?

Once non-alcoholic wines have been opened, you’ll want to consume them within 24 to 48 hours as they will quickly lose their fresh and fruity qualities once exposed to air. For non-alcoholic sparklers, drink within 24 hours of opening as they go flat quickly after the carbon dioxide has been released.  

How We Chose These Non-Alcoholic Wines

We wanted to ensure that there was a bottle on this list for every kind of drinker. Here you’ll find non-alcoholic wines for those who love heavy reds, crisp bubbles and everyone in between. First, we queried our team of editors and writers at large. In addition, we sifted through customer reviews and only chose options that maintained a four-star rating or higher with at least 15 customer reviews.

This article was updated on October 23, 2023.  

The post The 23 Best Non-Alcoholic Wines appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

The drink? A hard seltzer without alcohol. Or—as many have quipped—seltzer.

While there’s been plenty of online mockery about the company’s decision to jump on the NA bandwagon—why would consumers grab a can of White Claw over uber-popular La Croix, for example?—I believe White Claw’s expansion into the non-alcoholic space is just smart business. The alcohol company is far from alone in acknowledging the changing demographics of drinkers and their habits.

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Non-alcohol spirits, wine and beer have been rolled out at a fast clip over the last few years with well-known brands offering customers a no-buzz alternative. In the first half of last year, sales of NA beverages were up 54% annually. At the same time, hard seltzer sales have dropped dramatically. Through the month of December, analysts at Evercore ISI found that sales of traditional hard seltzers dropped a substantial 10.4%.

Many have posited that White Claw is merely attempting to avoid these declines, yet it turns out the brand is doing just fine even as the rest of the hard seltzer category bottoms out. During that same period, sales of White Claw grew by 4.4%. Sources estimate that the brand’s market share accounts for more than 50% of the category—the clear leader by a mile. That brand recognition is likely to play well in the growing NA space, too.

Everyone Wants a Piece of the NA Pie

“Everybody from Budweiser through Heineken has released a non-alcohol version of themselves, and they are obviously trying to maximize revenue off of a brand or a trademark,” says Jeff Musial, a beverage industry consultant and partner at Brand Elixir Partnerships. “All of a sudden, they can get more lunch usage, or get more people that are into Dry January. What White Claw is doing could mimic that, but it’s a bit different.”

Musial has been working in the alcohol industry since the 1980s and says companies have long seen the consumer need for “something sweet, something convenient, something that’s fun” to bring consumers together at various occasions. Those occasions spill into times where alcohol is not wanted or appropriate.

Though mocked online, this no-alcohol White Claw goes beyond plain-old carbonated water with the addition of electrolytes and 2 grams of sugar, delivering 15 calories in each 12-ounce serving. It could serve to hydrate drinkers between cans of the original alcohol-infused version. These new drinks, which are available in flavors such as black cherry cranberry, lime yuzu and mango passion fruit, were developed to mimic the “hard” aspect of the original, alcoholic beverage with a slightly firmer mouthfeel than traditional seltzers.

It makes sense that White Claw would want to get into the regular seltzer business. The sparkling water segment was a $34.3 billion industry in 2022 and is expected to grow to $85.6 billion by 2030, according to Fortune Business Insights, a data and analysis company. Non-alcoholic White Claw can get placement in grocery and convenience stores where its alcoholic version could not, expanding the brand’s visibility. Not for nothing, the alcohol-free White Claw flavors are a suitable mixer for White Claw vodka, which the company released last year.

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Other Hard Seltzers Ditching the Booze

White Claw is not the only alcoholic seltzer getting into the non-alcoholic business. Quirk Hard Seltzers, a brand owned by Duvel Moortgat and produced by Missouri’s Boulevard Brewing Company, is also rolling out a traditional seltzer. It comes after Boulevard first released a non-alcoholic beer three years ago, which enjoyed success with its consumer base.

“We realized that it was an opportunity for us to look at our full catalog,” says Boulevard brand director Ali Bush. “[We] tried to prioritize what we thought would be most impactful.”

The company’s Quirk Hard Seltzer line, which was introduced in 2020, “has quickly become the top-selling seltzer in the Kansas City market and nearly one-third of the brewery’s overall sales,” says the brewery.

The non-alcoholic version is 25 calories with five grams of carbohydrates and one gram of sugar per serving, flavored with yellow papaya and acai berry juice. It is currently only available in the brewery’s home market.

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“We have a rabid and loyal fan base here in Kansas City and they’re really quick to let us know if it is something of value or if it’s worth exploring further,” says Adam Hall, the brand manager of culture and strategy at Boulevard Brewing Company. “Right now, we’re just kind of waiting to see how Kansas City responds.”

Much of this product innovation is intended to capture younger consumers who are drinking less than previous generations. For Boulevard, at least, that means paying attention to those alcohol-abstinent young adults—and coming up with products that appeal to them.

“This is about listening to our consumers, listening to our distributors and listening to our retailers to gravitate to that and then putting our own unique spin on it,” says Bush.

The post The New Trend in Hard Seltzer? Regular Seltzer appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

Interestingly, those at the forefront of these movements include more than a handful of drinks professionals. Among them are sommeliers, individuals whose very job description—the curation and serving of wine—may at first blush seems at odds with alcohol abstinence. In Wine Enthusiast’s recent article, “Can a Sommelier Be Sober?,” contributor Lauren Paige Richeson profiles three such somms and dives into how sobriety has affected their work.

Among them was Laura Vidal, an award-winning, Montreal-born sommelier and restaurateur behind several lauded food and drinks spots across France. In 2021, Vidal was the first woman to be named sommelier of the year by the influential French restaurant guide, Gault Millau. She started identifying as sober more than four years ago.

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“I definitely feel like I can smell better, taste more precisely and get more deepness in texture [since going sober],” she told us.

We wanted to know more—how is this possible, and does she think the role of the sommelier is changing in light of the NA movement?

Listen as Vidal goes into this and more, with a focus on how she views her own sobriety and why her personal practices may look different from those of others who identify as sober. She explains her decision to sip (and spit) wine in a professional capacity and explores her sobriety against the backdrop of France’s famous culture of wine-splashed joie de vivre.

Episode Transcript

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.

Speakers: Rachel Tepper Paley, Laura Vidal

Rachel Tepper Paley 2:04

Hey, Laura, thanks so much for being here.

Laura Vidal 2:06

Hi, Rachel. Thanks for having me.

Rachel Tepper Paley 2:08 So you’ve been sober for four years. Can you tell me a little about your relationship with alcohol before that?

Laura Vidal 2:17

Sure. So my relationship with alcohol before I decided to stop drinking was one of discovery, a lot of curiosity because as a smell, you taste a lot of wine and would visit winemakers on a regular basis. Also in my restaurants, serving wine to customers having a glass of wine after service with my staff members and so forth. So I had a relationship to alcohol that was more social, I would not drink alone, I would probably be more the kind of person who used to go out with a bunch of friends who also were passionate about wine and food. And we would have you know, a bunch of bottles. And sometimes I would get really drunk. And sometimes I would get you know, just slightly tipsy. But my relationship wasn’t one that I deemed heavily problematic. But I definitely towards the end, started to have moments where I found that my relationship was a little bit problematic simply because I was drinking quite a fair amount and had a couple of times where I literally had blackouts and couldn’t remember exactly what I had talked about, or things that I had said and to whom that was a bit worrisome to me. So I think that there were little kind of red flags that came up before I made that decision, which also came before a really big year of events and pretty high profile clients that we had lined up. And I wanted to make sure that I had, you know a really cool head for that. So I decided to take a break from alcohol, just because I literally had a huge 35th birthday with my business partner, we went to like this amazing restaurant in the Basque Country, drank a bunch of delicious wine. And the next morning, I had the worst headache ever. So I wanted to sort of take a break from it simply because I didn’t feel like I had the bandwidth to do that kind of thing until all of those kind of big events were cased. And my initial plan was never to stop entirely. It was just to take a break from it.

Rachel Tepper Paley 4:14

Yeah, that makes sense. I’m curious about that period of time between when you started to abstain from alcohol. And when you decided to commit to sobriety. How did it feel in the beginning? And at what point did you think this could be more than a phase?

Laura Vidal 4:31

For first because it was sort of just in my mind a break. I didn’t put a lot of pressure on myself. Socially speaking, I kind of told people look, I’m taking a break from booze for a while I have a really busy year coming up. I had this sort of excuse that made it simpler for me to be in society without having to have the dreaded question of like, Oh, why don’t you stop drinking, like Did something happen? Are you pregnant? Like always the same questions we get, especially as women, as if there’s something wrong with us. because we’re not drinking. So I would say that that period of time was a period where I did a lot of self care, like I got really like back into my yoga practice and did a lot of journaling, again, spent a lot of time in nature. And I was feeling very productive and sleeping better. I just felt generally better and my body physically and health wise. So it really made me feel quite empowered actually. And I think that’s one of the reasons why the life that I built, not drinking felt like it was just way more healthy and enjoyable than the one that I had beforehand. So I think that’s also the one of the reasons why it stuck, because there were clear benefits for me, that arrived quite quickly. And we’re especially visible after the fourth month of abstinence from drinking.

Rachel Tepper Paley 5:54

After that fourth month, what were some of those effects that you saw?

Laura Vidal 5:58

I think, mainly there. So there’s definitely more self awareness, I felt way more connected to my emotions in a healthier way. Like I wasn’t drowning things and alcohol, because even though it wasn’t my intention beforehand, when I was drinking, I think alcohol definitely helped to relieve stress and pressure that I felt in my job, and even in my personal life. So I think it was like a way for me to a bit self medicate, I would say unconsciously, to deal with issues that I had personally and professionally. And when I stopped drinking, I had to deal with those head ons. So I had to actually, you know, address them without that little crutch. And I believe that finding the tools to address that, after I stopped drinking without the crutch of drinking was was one of the reasons that helped me to rebuild relationships, rebuild also and get closer to the relationship I have with myself and therefore have healthier connections with people in my life with my employees, my business partners. And just like in general, my friends and family if I felt that there was a lot of good feedback about how I seemed more relaxed and less stressed out and more present, that was one of the things that came back a lot that I was more present.

Rachel Tepper Paley 7:15

Wow. How did people in your drinks community react to the news? And how did that affect you?

Laura Vidal 7:21

My employees were employees and, you know, business partner, my business partners were super supportive. My family and friends were also really supportive. Like everyone that was close to me, that’s not in the restaurant industry was also very encouraging. There were some people like winemakers or people that were like clients that used to come and I’d have drinks with, or people that I knew socially in the restaurant industry that I would have a drink with. And that was the main sort of reason we hung out that I sort of started seeing a bit less obviously, just because I wasn’t drinking as much. At the same time, I felt there was a lot of reactions that were about, there were a lot of curiosity, there was a lot of curiosity, people who were asking questions about why and had all this, you know, just wondering how I could actually stay in the restaurant industry continue to be smelly, even though I wasn’t actually drinking alcohol seem to be really puzzling to a lot of people. And I think just generally, some of the reactions that a lot of people get when they stop drinking is people get triggered and project a lot of their own issues about their relationship with alcohol onto you, and don’t want you to stop drinking, because then it maybe makes them feel like they’re doing it by themselves. So if I was out, I have a couple of friends who don’t drink. So like once I remember going out with my friends who didn’t drink and there was one person there who drank and they were very upset by the fact that nobody else was drinking as though that’s really boring. And like, Okay, well, you guys are no fun, that kind of thing. So, I mean, that happens, but it’s not I just, you know, I don’t take it personal because I know it’s not about me, really, it’s just more about their own views and relationship to alcohol. Because people who don’t have issues with alcohol, be it positive or negative. They don’t care if you’re drink or not. They just like they’re just, you know, happy to hang out with you. So it made it really clear who was genuinely a friend, and who was more there for other reasons, or, you know, I thought that was interesting, for sure.

Rachel Tepper Paley 9:21

I think that’s really insightful. Do you think that the fact that you’re based in France and you know, French culture is very intertwined with wine culture, do you think that affected anything?

Laura Vidal 9:33

I think that alcohol is alcohol, so it’s the same thing. It’s ethanol, and it’s an all alcohol based products, be it the be the really fancy ones from burgundy or champagne. That’s, you know, extremely well made by a small producer, or cheap tequila from Mexico. I mean, it’s all the same thing really, at the end of the day. So I think it’s really important to clarify that in France There’s definitely a culture of what we call like Bo vivo, it means good living. And that includes, you know, eating well drinking well, and having culture around wine, which means knowing about different, you know, wine regions and varietals and being well read in the wine world. But it doesn’t take away from the fact that if the relationship to that consumption is unhealthy and excessive, it’s doesn’t matter if it’s wine or anything else, really. But there is something to be said about the hypocrisy around that. Simply because wine does take a big place has a big has a big place in the French culture, that has been something that I have had to grapple with. Because personally, there’s a little bit of like cognitive dissonance for me, when it comes to it, I love, I actually do love wine. And I continue to this day to taste wine and spit it even sometimes for purely pleasures slash intellectual curiosity purposes. And at the same time, I just don’t want the effects of the ethanol in my body, and the you know, the hangover, or the tiredness, or the little sort of blur that it brings to my life, kind of want to be really like present for it all. And I’m also not, I’m not excessive in my in my vision of it in the sense that there there is a distinction between someone who’s completely abstinent from alcohol, someone who’s sober, curious, so someone who sort of occasionally has a drink here and there, but is extremely mindful and conscious in their consumption. And I think that for me, I would say that like, since I stopped drinking, I have had a couple sips of beer, right, left and center and a couple sips of wine, right, left and center. But I would say it’s not, you know, been over two or three times a year. So it’s extremely rare, but it does happen, and I don’t give myself crap for it. Like, I am not judging myself for having a SIP here. And there, I don’t have that sort of all or nothing vision about it. And I think it’s important to bring neurons to what corresponds to a healthy relationship to alcohol for everybody. So I think that if you say if you decide that in your, your vision of drinking, you want to have a really delicious glass of Burgundy once in a while, because that feels correct and right for you, and you’re feeling really good about it. And it makes sense, then that’s great. And if you want to sometimes do, I don’t know a shot of tequila because it makes you feel happy or whatever. But it’s very conscious and like, you’re careful not to engage in unhealthy behavior because of it or whatnot. That’s great. So I’m not judging anyone’s choice. Everyone has their own sort of design of their relationship to alcohol, I think it’s just important to take a step back, really be honest about it, take a good hard look in the mirror about the reasons why we’re drinking. And that drinking involves, you know, anything from wine, to beer, to cocktails, to whatever it is that takes you away from the present moment.

Rachel Tepper Paley 13:01

I think that makes a lot of sense. And it leads into another question I wanted to ask you because, as you say, you do sip wine, you taste wine as you need to for work, occasionally, socially. That’s a line that some other sober folks may choose not to cross. But I’d love to hear a little bit about why that works for you personally, but why it might not work for others, and also how that perhaps plays into this sort of changing notion of what sobriety is right now.

Laura Vidal 13:33

It’s a really good question. I think there’s, it’s important to note the difference between alcohol dependency so addiction to alcohol, which is actually something that requires abstinence to get through. And for different people for different reasons, just the relationship to alcohol, there’s no need, there might not be a need to completely be abstinent, you can have a more moderate relationship to alcohol. And it’s okay to design that the way that you feel is right for you. And I do think that this notion of complete abstinence and stopping entirely and as soon as you have a sip, it’s like considered a relapse does come a certain extent from the popular belief relayed by Alcoholics Anonymous, which is a format that helps has helped and I’m sure will continue to help a lot of people because of its reliance on like a higher power and acknowledging that you have a problem and following the 12 steps, which are extremely helpful for a lot of people. However, I do find that there is an element and it’s something that I read in a book called quitting like a woman by Holly Whitaker, which is an incredible book that talks about how you can design in a more sort of female centric way. Your relationship to alcohol that doesn’t involve this like extremely black or white, performance based getting your little chip that says you stopped for three months and so forth, can lead to, you know, anxiety and this feeling that you’re failing at something if you relapse and this notion of shame, which is very linked also to the whole concept of, you know, giving it up to God and all that stuff, I think there’s an element of too much black or white, and pressure to perform almost, which is something we already have to deal with on a day to day basis. And she brings a really interesting perspective in her book that that I really adhere to. And that spoke to me and made me feel less alone in my process, which states basically, that creating a life that you want to live fully is actually the goal of sobriety and not, you know, abstaining from something that’s not going to be helping you. So it’s very focused on sort of working on yourself and improving your life in a way that’s helpful, and feels right for you. Without having this whole demonization of your addiction. However, I will, I will nuance and say that some people do clearly need and want to go in that in that program, because it really helps them to have that structure. And again, I don’t, I don’t feel that that’s something that I need or want. But I do feel that some people might need that. And that’s why I’m a big proponent of proponent of tailor your own sobriety to your needs, and be really close to yourself and aware of what it is that helps you get support that you need from any means necessary, be it a therapist, or energy workers spirituality, or a group like a as well can definitely help. So I would say that, sorry for the long answer. But that’s kind of why I’ve decided to look at my sobriety in a way that is very honest, and not say that I’m 100% sober, because it’s hard sometimes to talk to someone who’s, you know, had serious battles with addiction. And for them, even dipping their lips into a glass of wine is too much and goes beyond their boundaries gives them too much temptation. However, that’s not my case, like I can taste you know, 100 wines in a wine fair spit, every single one of them not have a single drink the whole time. And that’s totally fine. For me, I don’t feel the need to. But at other times, I could go to like a really nice restaurant and have a little sip of my boyfriend’s beer, just because I’m really hot. And that’s, that’s enough for me as well. And then I could also just not drink for or not have a single sip of anything for literally like five months. And that’s totally okay. So think everyone’s different. And that’s really important to acknowledge more than anything else.

Rachel Tepper Paley 17:46

Going back to your personal sobriety in our article on wine enthusiast.com, you talk about how being sober actually helps you smell better and taste more precisely. How do you think this is? And can you walk us through your process of of tasting while being sober?

Laura Vidal 18:07

Sure. So I think that it’s something that’s interesting to observe, because I found that my memory has gotten better. Over the years since I stopped drinking, I feel like I had all this memory loss before. And that was actually one of the red flags is like this memory loss. I was like, What is this memory loss. And since I stopped drinking, I’ve had much better memory and part of wine tasting is also you know, remembering what you’re tasting and having, having memory of the taste and smell of a wine and where you think it’s going to be going in the next couple of years is really crucial. So I actually found that it’s gotten better for that, that reason. But another reason also is that when you go to wine tastings, it’s kind of like a big social event for smelly A’s and winemakers and everybody gets together and there’s always like a really fun dinner at the end of the one salons. And usually at those one salons you end up drinking in the evening. And usually you end up having you know, more than a couple drinks and getting into like a fun little party vibe. And everyone’s dancing and usually finished pretty drunk and hungover the next morning and when you’re hungover the next morning, like your palate, just like physically your tongue and your your buds is saturated and tired and you’re tired and you don’t have good memory and you’re like not thinking clearly. And so that’s just one of the things that I don’t have to deal with anymore. Because even though I do get saturated by tasting like tons and tons of wine, out of wine tasting the evening of where usually used to get, you know, slosh with a bunch of other friends or whatever now I don’t so I wake up fresh. I get to the wine tasting early and I’m like on point and I just feel that it’s something that has allowed me to progress more efficiently since I stopped.

Rachel Tepper Paley 20:33

NA products as well as sober and sober curious lifestyles are huge right now. Do you think that the role of the sommelier is changing in light of those movements and also your own personal experience?

Laura Vidal 20:46

Totally. I really do. I feel that people are more and more interested in having options when it comes to non alcoholic or low alcohol drinks. So we have on our you know, in my restaurants since I stopped drinking, I got really interested in that obviously because it’s something that I was looking for as well. And so you know, non alcoholic beers, Kombucha is or pet not teas, as we call them. As well as alternative alternatives to wine have become more and more popular. And in France, it took a bit of time, I think more than in the US or the UK. But definitely we’re we’ve reached a point now where there’s a lot of small startups that have started creating alternatives to alcohol, and are trying to work on things that are not too sweet and not too bubbly. And they’re trying to find sort of inbetweeners. Also, personally, I thought that it was really important to propose non alcoholic cocktails on our wine on our, on our drinks program, at the various restaurants we have, and we found some really cool oak ah, Kombucha is from the Basque Country, we found this really cool dude, that makes incredible alternatives from Denmark called Murray. And they’re all really interesting, because they’re actually not like soft drinks, they’re really more, I would say, alternative low or non alcoholic beverages. And I feel that that’s really where we’re going with all of this is that, it’s nice to imagine that we’re going to just do something completely different from non alcoholic this or non alcoholic that like instead of doing non alcoholic rum, or non alcoholic beer, it’s interesting to think that we’re gonna have these really like interesting alternatives that have nothing to do with anything we know already, and therefore can be proposed and be interesting for anyone, including people who do drink alcohol.

Rachel Tepper Paley 22:36

I think that’s really interesting. And it almost makes me think of kind of the vegetarian and vegan movements that, you know, in the 90s, maybe the early 2000s, a lot of vegetarian and vegan products were faux meats, they were tofu, or beancurd, or whatever, trying to be meat. And I think it turned a lot of people off, because those things will never be meat. But as we progressed, you know, people started being more open to those things, as they’re made, you know, in Asian cultures, basically, like not trying to hide that tofu was tofu. And I think that, personally, it made me you know, eat those foods when they were not pretending to be meat. And I’m curious if you think that there’s a parallel here in the NA space.

Laura Vidal 23:31

Yeah, for sure. Like, I definitely think that there’s there’s certain things that are interesting, even if they’re non alcoholic, like beer is an example simply because you can do a beer that’s low alcohol as in a non alcoholic beer at 0% is obviously going to be inverse osmosis and requires a lot of energy and water. And it’s not the greatest, but it’s a lot of investment because the machine that does that is extremely expensive. And so that’s what usually big beer companies use. But smaller brewers do high temperature fermentation so that the yeast that work at that temperature, don’t transform the malt into the mountain the sweet or will the alcohol in basically into alcohol, they transform it into very little. So there’s like 0.7%, or whatnot, but much less than that sometimes. And that’s considered, you know, non alcoholic, but in a certain way that still remains artisanal. But I do feel that like, you know, not like wine that’s non alcoholic, it’s also inverse osmosis. And it just takes away. It doesn’t feel very genuine to me, and I’m not a big proponent of it. So I do prefer, I like the idea of elevating kombucha, creating different like techniques that make it a bit more interesting and different. I like the idea of combining different techniques of fermentation like VAs with kefir, and kombucha mother to do something completely different and see if people can, you know, take pleasure and there can be different sort of flavor profiles that can bring complex City to a meal. And also create this ceremonious aspect of drinking a glass of something delicious, which I think is part of the pleasure of enjoying a meal at a table. And like we’re talking earlier about the French culture, every time that we serve anything non alcoholic in our restaurants, we try to put it into a nice glass. So there’s an element of feeling special, and that you’re not excluded from the social fun and you know, conviviality that people are looking for when they go out.

Rachel Tepper Paley 25:32

And I imagine you see that it’s very much part of your role as a sommelier.

Laura Vidal 25:36

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, when we learn about when, when we do our training, as civilians, we learn about all kinds of different things, including alcohol, but also soft drinks and cocktails, and mocktails, and teas and coffees and all that stuff. So it’s part of our job, I think, to now and large in our perspective and our knowledge base to include these different sorts of offers that can really surprise people. And I have a friend of mine who is called Benoit and a few and he started doing non alcoholic pairings for gastronomic restaurants and does a bunch of events all over the place. Now, he actually, you know, does his own concoctions and he’s a bit like a druid, like he does his own mixes, and it’s all homemade. And it’s very tailored to the to the food. So to a certain extent, it’s much more high end and it’s very like gastronomic experience. But in the idea of it, the whole point is to be able to have a really interesting experience with non alcoholic beverages. And there is a huge like possible. There’s a world of possibles when it comes to non alcoholic beverages, that we can make ourselves some liaise and work on. So I think it’s something that’s going to develop more and more and will also bring value to the to the work that we do as smellies. Because we are sort of curators and not creators. And so I think if we start working on, if we start working in the non alcoholic sphere, we can also bring a bit more creativity to our line of work and therefore make it even, like making more valuable and interesting to work in that sector.

Rachel Tepper Paley 27:19

I think that’s great. So looking forward, do you think your sobriety will look the same in 10 years as it does now?

Laura Vidal 27:28

I do think that it’s going to evolve over time, like I’ve actually been thinking about starting to drink again, but more on a very, like sort of occasional basis. Like right now I feel like what I do is really like small amounts, and never a glass and you know, never never, literally a month at a time sort of a part kind of thing. So I think it might change. But I’m not, I’m really trying to be very present with my feeling and listening to myself and making sure that I’m doing it for the right reasons that I’m holding my sobriety for the right reasons, but also that if I do have a glass, or a sip of something, it’s also for the right reasons, and never to compensate or to numb myself from feeling the present moment. And so I have no idea what it’s going to look like in 10 years from now. But I think it’ll have evolved because for sure, I’m evolving all the time. And so I do know, however, that it’s got, it’s really been one of the best decisions of my life. And I don’t feel that I’m going to sort of go back and drinking ever again the way that I used to. But the door is not close to rethinking a new format for that in my life. Because wine and the whole restaurant industry is a huge part of my life. And I love it very much. And I don’t want it to be sort of considered excluded from options. But at this time in my life, I’m feeling really good about my choices. And I just want to stay in that dynamic. So whatever it looks like it’s going to probably evolve. But there’s always going to be a lot of presence and a lot of consideration brought to that for sure.

Rachel Tepper Paley 29:05

And what would you tell other drinks professionals who are considering sobriety, especially other sommeliers?

Laura Vidal 29:12

I think that it’s interesting always to look at our relationship to alcohol, be it whoever we are, in whatever domain we work, but even more so as we work very closely with a product that can be dangerous when abused. I think it’s important to look at our consumption as civilians and really, you know, ask ourselves the right questions of why we’re drinking the way we are. Is it really bringing out the best in us and for us? Is it serving us or is it something that’s not serving us? So I would say just look at your relationship to alcohol as honestly as possible. And you can ask people that love you what they think about your relationship to alcohol because sometimes being in the world of wine, we get sort of caught up in the whole whirlwind and we’re surrounded by people doing the same Same thing as us. So it doesn’t feel like it’s a problem. But other people in our life who are not in it might have other opinions. So I think it’s interesting to look at that. And I would definitely say that there’s nothing stopping you from taking a break here and there. So like dread dry, January’s a great way to start just to like, get some perspective, actually, and see how it feels to be a sober person in the world. And that that also helps us to be better smellies to be able to propose alternatives to those people who cannot or will not drink. for other reasons. Maybe someone has a health issue. Maybe somebody’s pregnant, there’s all kinds of reasons why you can’t be drinking, not just, you know, choice based. And I think it’s really nice to be able to put ourselves in our customers shoes as well to give them options that are actually really cool, delicious, make them feel included. Because I think feeling included is kind of part of our job, like we’re there to be hospitable. welcome people into our space and make them feel like they’re part of something cool and special, and fun. And so if we can do that, with wine, we can also and should really also be doing it with non alcoholic options.

Rachel Tepper Paley 31:06

I think that’s great. Thank you so much, Laura, for being here today. This has been a fascinating conversation and I think you’ve given people a lot to think about.

Laura Vidal 31:15

Thank you so much for having me, Rachel.

The post What Happens When a Sommelier Stops Drinking? appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

The idea of a sober sommelier may seem counterintuitive at first. After all, wine is at the heart of the sommelier’s craft. But as the industry evolves, the role of the somm has, too.

“I think being a sober sommelier challenges the traditional stereotype of what a sommelier should be,” says France-based sober somm Laura Vidal. “It’s important for us to show that you don’t have to drink to appreciate wine, and that there are many different ways to enjoy it.”

What does being a sober sommelier look like in practice, though? We queried several about their experiences and the challenges of abstaining from alcohol while working in a booze-soaked industry.

Laura Vidal, Four Years Sober

Born in Montreal, Vidal is an award-winning sommelier and restaurateur whose love of wine took her to France. In 2011, she became the first sommelier of the noted Parisian bistro Frenchie. Today, Vidal and her former partner run The Small Group, a company that hosts events around Paris inspired by local products and natural wine. They’re also the forces behind food and drink spots around the country, including Chardon in Arles as well as La Mercerie, Livingston and Pétrin Couchette in Marseille. In 2021, Vidal was the first woman named sommelier of the year by the French restaurant guide Gault & Millau.

Vidal’s decision to embrace sobriety started as a brief pause from alcohol. The day after her 35th birthday, she considered the busy months ahead. “I had a huge year of events, pop-ups and big openings ahead of me in 2019 and I couldn’t fathom being hungover for one single day of it,” she says. “I decided to take a break, and it stuck.”

While she never considered her relationship with alcohol problematic, Vidal cites personal health and wellness as her primary motivation to stop drinking. “I wanted to be in control of my body and mind,” she says. “I wanted to be healthier and more present in my life.”

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Sobriety for Vidal means something different than what it might for others. She still tastes the wines she serves to her clients and customers, although she spits. She finds that not drinking has surprisingly improved her skills.

“I definitely feel like I can smell better, taste more precisely and get more deepness in texture [since going sober],” she says. Still, she understands why the concept of a sober sommelier might throw some for a loop.

“Most people are curious, impressed, surprised and ask a million questions,” she says. “They think about their own relationship with alcohol, and it triggers them. But it’s important to be honest and transparent about your decision and to show that it doesn’t affect your ability to do your job.”

Sam Anderson, 8 Years Semi-Sober

Sam Anderson is a sommelier and wine director based in Delaware. He came up in the restaurant business as a bartender and mixologist before going on to design beverage programs at some of New York City’s top restaurants, including Contra and Wild Air. He describes himself as “semi-sober.”

“For some folks, sober/non-sober is binary,” he says. “In my case, it’s a bit more nuanced. I do drink occasionally, but it’s quite rare.”

Anderson lives with Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD), which influences his desire “to be in control of my body and mind,” he says. “I didn’t want to be dependent on alcohol to do my job or enjoy my life.”

That hasn’t meant cutting out alcohol entirely. Anderson says he’s gone nine months at a time without drinking, but has found that with time and therapy, he’s been able to regulate his habits in a way that works for him.

“I have a pretty strong history of addiction in my family, and in my 20s I had a lot of problems with addiction, including some narcotics,” he says. “I think [drinking] was just my process of working through a lot of the trauma from my childhood.” After becoming a father, however, Anderson found his relationship with alcohol did not suit his new family dynamic. “A hangover is bad, but a hangover when your two-and-a-half-year-old daughter is pulling your hair at 5:45 in the morning—that’s even worse,” he says.

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Cutting back on drinking has given Anderson more energy and focus, while also setting a positive example for his family, he says. But it also presented issues with clients who did not understand or respect his decision not to drink. For that reason, Anderson moved away from sommelier jobs that put him on the floor of a restaurant. These days, most of his work concerns wine importing and distribution.

“I literally have a 1200-square-foot warehouse full of wine,” he says. “I am constantly faced with the option to drink if I choose—but I [usually] don’t.”

Timothy Hanni, 30 Years Sober

Timothy Hanni is a master of wine with a successful drinks career that’s spanned four decades. He’s been sober for three of them.

Hanni’s interest in wine goes back to childhood, when his father introduced him to red Burgundy. He eventually worked as a professional chef for 10 years before transitioning to the wine industry. Over the course of his career, he worked as a retail wine buyer, manager and broker. But by 1993, Hanni’s drinking habits had spun out of control.

“I [had] married the woman of my dreams—the singer in a band I played in at the time. This was my second marriage, and I was on the fast track to another train wreck of a failed relationship,” he says of that period. “I knew I needed help and checked into Crutcher’s Serenity Center on Howell Mountain in Napa for a 28-day recovery program. I knew that if I did not, I would be single again and in general my life was not working.” The two recently celebrated their 30th anniversary of both their marriage and his sobriety, which Hanni says is “no coincidence.”

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Today, Hanni teaches wine business courses at universities, consults around the world and conducts his own wine research, which has been incorporated into the Wine & Spirits Education Trust curriculum. Advocacy of and education about moderate drinking are major focuses.

“I think the wine industry has a responsibility to promote moderation and responsible drinking,” he says. “As wine professionals, we can play a positive role in changing the culture around alcohol and encouraging healthier lifestyles.”

The hardest part of being sober in the wine business? For Hanni, it’s not “ignorant people” and their preconceptions of sobriety get to him. “The subject of wine seems to bring out the arrogance, defensiveness and need to intimidate others,” he says. “This becomes really exaggerated as they drink more. I just don’t have time or inclination for that anymore.”

“I can be seen as a threat to people who need to seriously consider their own relationship with alcohol and/or drugs,” Hanni continues. “At an industry-wide level, education is sorely lacking and part of the ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ covenant that keeps the stigma alive and deprives alcoholics from the help of others.”

These things drive Hanni to be open about his recovery. “This is a critical part of my giving back,” he says.

Looking to the Future

The market for non-alcoholic beverages surpassed $11 billion in 2022, according to Forbes, and it’s only growing. The sober sommeliers interviewed for this story are uniformly intrigued by the changes in the industry.

“I think there’s a growing awareness of the negative impacts of excessive alcohol consumption, and people are starting to look for more low-alcohol and non-alcoholic options,” says Vidal, who stocks her menu with many no-abv offerings. “As sommeliers, it’s our job to provide those options and to promote responsible drinking practices.”

Hanni, on the other hand, believes that opening a bottle can be triggering for many sober individuals. He encourages avoiding anything that is alcohol-like—even trendy zero-proof wines and spirits.

“It is a very personal disease as well and I cannot over-emphasize the need to take recovery seriously and work with a recovery professional on-going,” he says. “Most experts dislike non-alcoholic alternatives and, combined with the ritual, can be a fast track to relapse.”

No matter one’s personal drinking preferences, it’s clear that there’s growing room for sobriety in alcohol-friendly spaces. The existence of sober sommeliers is certainly further proof that the industry is changing.

For wine professionals evaluating their relationships with alcohol, Vidal encourages introspection and respect for alcohol. “It’s important to be honest with yourself and with others about your decision,” she says. “But don’t let it define you. You’re still a sommelier, and you still have a lot to offer.”

The post Can a Sommelier Be Sober? appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

Drinks can refresh, heighten, or neutralize our sense of taste. At their best, they give the palate another opportunity to engage with fresh ingredients. Along with the rest of the world’s cities, Lagos has recently been swept up in a cocktail craze. To Lagos’s benefit, the ingredients we can obtain locally add extraordinary complexity to popular drinks.

My cookbook is not the definitive guide to what Lagosians drink, but a sample of what I enjoy and have enjoyed while living in Nigeria. Just as we do with the rest of our cuisine, Lagosians (and Nigerians in general) approach beverages without a strict adherence to category.

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There are many ways to incorporate this tonic into your routine: as an ingredient in a smoothie, an after-meal digestif or a simple refreshment.

I have become obsessed with tonics now that I have more access to greens and other produce from my friend Yemi’s farm. It seems that once we have our native herbs and greens within reach, we start to explore all the ways to center our health and nutrition in ancestral traditions. Whereas the greens Yemi grows are great for blood and cardiovascular health, this tonic shares many common ingredients of other immunity-boosting tonics. It is rich with vitamin C, digestive aids, and anti-inflammatory properties.

Citrus Health Tonic

Adapted from My Everyday Lagos: Nigerian Cooking at Home and in the Diaspora by Yewande Komolafe

Instructions

Serves 4 to 6

The post Inspired by Lagos, a Turmeric-Spiked Citrus Health Tonic appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

It’s emblematic of a dramatic shift currently taking place in our culture. I came of legal drinking age in the early 1990s, not long after “60 Minutes” told America that drinking red wine was healthy. In that legendary segment on the “French paradox,” Morley Safer asked: “Why is it that the French, who eat as much—or more—fat than we do, suffer fewer heart attacks?” The answer to the riddle, he continued, raising a full glass of red wine, “may lie in this inviting glass.” He later spoke with a French researcher, who claimed wine consumption could cut the risk of heart attack by as much as 50 percent.

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Though later research would undercut the premise of the French paradox, the segment had a profound effect on mainstream attitudes toward drinking in the United States. Boomers who’d previously never considered consuming wine began buying Cabernet Sauvignon and Zinfandel by the case. By 1994, wine consumption in the United States soared. Per capita consumption would continue to increase annually for the next 22 years.

The problem? An increasingly tall pile of evidence suggests alcohol is not, in fact, a health beverage. Canada has already changed its official health guidelines to recommend only two drinks per week, which it deems low-risk. Any more than that boosts the risk to moderate. Koob is apparently watching our northern neighbor’s experiment closely.

“If there’s health benefits, I think people will start to re-evaluate where we’re at,” he told the Daily Mail. “I mean, [suggested daily intake is] not going to go up, I’m pretty sure. If [guidelines] go in any direction, it would be toward Canada.” The USDA will revisit its alcohol consumption guidelines in 2025.

Since at least the late 2010s, we’ve seen plenty of research studies that question how healthy it was to drink even “moderate” amounts of alcoholic beverages. In January 2018, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services deleted the dietary guidelines that said moderate drinking could lower the risk of heart disease. A few months later, the National Institutes of Health halted a major study meant to prove, once and for all, that moderate alcohol consumption had health benefits—after the New York Times reported that much of the $100 million budget came from five of the world’s largest alcoholic beverage manufacturers.

In September 2018, a bombshell study and commentary published in the Lancet asserted that “no level of alcohol consumption improves health” and cited alcohol as a leading risk factor in worldwide deaths. “These results,” wrote the study’s authors, “suggest that alcohol control policies might need to be revised worldwide, refocusing on efforts to lower overall population-level consumption.” Another study in the Lancet in 2021 said that 4 percent of global cancer cases in 2020 could be attributed to alcohol.

More from Jason Wilson: What It’s Like to Live in a Dry Town

Over in Europe, according to trade magazine Meiningers, the World Health Organization is changing the way it talks about alcoholic beverages. In 2022, the WHO proposed European action to regulate alcohol advertising and labelling, as well as where alcoholic beverages can be sold. That document, “Turning down the alcohol flow,” makes it clear that the WHO wants to treat alcohol like tobacco: “Just as with tobacco, a global and comprehensive approach is required to remove alcohol marketing, as far as possible, from all contexts.”

In January of this year, the WHO published a news release entitled “No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health.” In that release, Dr. Carina Ferreira-Borges, a top WHO official, said: “We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink—the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage.” In May, WHO announced that Ireland, in 2026, would be the first country in the world to introduce health labeling on alcohol products, with prominent warnings about the links between alcohol, liver disease and cancer. “I look forward to other countries following our example,” said Irish Health Minister Stephen Donnelly.

None of this is new. Industry observers, like me, have been talking about the growing neo-prohibition movement for a while now. If it’s surprising to people in the industry, then it’s only because the industry’s head has been in the sand.

What the drinks industry seems to have trouble grasping is that the neo-prohibition side is seizing the narrative. Over the past decade, there has been a serious push to “de-normalize” the drinking of alcoholic beverages.

Meiningers spoke with Ana Isabel Alves, executive director of the Portuguese Association for Wine and Spirits, who explained that, for years, alcohol health warnings focused on drunk driving, minors or pregnant women. “We are used to seeing news about alcohol beverages and the WHO in the press,” Alves said. “But the narratives have changed.” The new story, Alves said, is “about making alcoholic beverages less socially acceptable, like with tobacco.”

Anyone paying attention knows that this new narrative has been happening for at least a decade. A large number of Americans have already reconsidered their relationship to alcohol. Sober Curious, Cali Sober and the rise of legal cannabis, Dry January, dubious wellness claims about “clean,” “additive-free” or “hangover-free” wine and the rise of non-alcoholic adaptogenics are firmly established in the culture.

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Many in the drinks industry figure this all might be a fleeting reaction brought on by the pandemic, but it’s starting to look more and more like a lasting shift. Some have attempted to attack and discredit the questionable science behind studies like those in The Lancet. But clearly, that tactic isn’t working. On behalf of its $14 billon wine industry, the Italian government is working to block the Irish law from taking effect in 2026. But more and more, there’s a creeping sense that any resistance is like swimming against a cultural tide.

There seems to be even rougher waves on the horizon, especially with the growing popularity of weight-loss drugs such as Ozempic and Wegovy. We’ve been hearing anecdotally about Ozempic reducing people’s desire to drink. A few weeks ago, the Washington Post reported that studies found those taking weight-loss drugs consumed 62 percent less alcohol. More than one in five said they had stopped drinking booze altogether.

I don’t know what the answer is for the drinks industry. But I’m fairly certain that “60 Minutes” isn’t going to save them this time around by “re-normalizing” drinking for Americans.

You can follow Jason Wilson on Wine Enthusiast and click here to subscribe to his Everyday Drinking newsletter, where you’ll receive regular dispatches on food, travel and culture through the lens of wine and spirits.

The post Is Alcohol the New Tobacco? appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

In some cases, however, Prohibition is literally very much alive and well. Thirty-three states allow local governments to prohibit the sale of booze. Nearly 16 million Americans live in towns or counties where buying booze is against the law. I am one of those Americans.

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It always surprises people when I tell them I live in a town that prohibits the sale of alcoholic beverages. A drinks writer who lives in a dry town! The irony! My year-round residence, the historic town of Haddonfield, New Jersey, has been dry since 1873—a full 47 years before Prohibition. This was mostly driven by local Quakers who led the early temperance movement and didn’t like Haddonfield’s reputation, dating to the 18th century, as a tavern town. Our major historic site, incongruously, is the Indian King Tavern, which dates to 1750. The last local vote to allow liquor, in 1976, failed.

In any case, this summer, I’ve chosen to double down on dry towns, and perhaps also irony. I’ve temporarily relocated to a completely dry island: Ocean City, New Jersey, which has prohibited booze since 1909.

Summer on a dry island has little effect on my life. After all, a prohibition on the local sale of alcohol does not mean drinkers can’t imbibe out-of-state booze at home. Indeed, in Ocean City, I have a well-stocked bar. I meet friends for happy hour on the public beach and we pour wine, beer or cocktails—concealed in a plastic cup. No one hassles us. I can also take a 10-minute Uber ride to the next island south, which has two bayside bars.

Clearly, I’m not the only one dedicated to workarounds. In 2017, USA Today voted Ocean City as New Jersey’s “drunkest city.” Since the town was originally founded in the 19th century by four Methodist ministers as a Christian resort, Ocean City’s old guard wasn’t very happy with this designation.

The main negative effect of local Prohibition is a rather poor restaurant scene on the island, compounded because Ocean City bans a bring-your-own-bottle option. Some private clubs have popped up, but by and large, you must leave the island to legally drink. I’ve always thought it was irresponsible of Ocean City—a city of more than 150,000 on a summer weekend—to compel residents who desire wine with dinner to hop into their cars. Yet the old laws aren’t changing any time soon. A decade ago, the town voted 2-1 against allowing the BYOB option.

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Meanwhile, back home in Haddonfield—thanks to a new loophole in the state law—our town is evolving from dry to damp. Selling booze is still technically illegal, but new rules in New Jersey meant to encourage craft breweries, distilleries and wineries now allow them to operate outside of local control. Our small town of 12,000 now has exactly one brew pub, one wine tasting room and one distillery with a cocktail bar.

I recently had a beer at our local King’s Road Brewery with our former mayor, Jeff Kasko, who was in office when Haddonfield was moving from dry to damp in 2013 and 2014. At that time, when the state laws changed and the brewery approached the town, there was a lot of vocal opposition.

“People pushed back, including my predecessor in office,” Kasko recalls. “They said, ‘Look, the tradition of this town is that it’s dry, and we don’t want alcohol of any sort.’”

Ultimately, because of the new law, the naysayers in town had little legal footing to oppose the brewery. So far, the prohibitionists’ concerns about the nature of the town changing have been proven wrong.

“We have one nice brewery, we have one nice winery and the town is fine,” Kasko says. “It didn’t go to pot. We don’t have drunk people stumbling all over the street. It’s worked. It’s not mayhem.”

In fact, Kasko says the booze-focused enterprises have had a positive impact on the town. “You can physically see it when you’re downtown on a nice day or nice early evening,” he says. “I meet people in here all the time that aren’t from Haddonfield and they’ve never been to Haddonfield. Once they’re here, they’re going to dinner at a restaurant down the street, or they’re checking out an antique store, or another shop downtown. But they’re walking around. And then they go home and tell their friends. You can’t buy that type of promotion or that kind of foot traffic. So, bringing [alcohol-focused establishments] here has been an absolute boon to this downtown.”

But prohibitionists aren’t the only ones trying to limit alcohol consumption. The state of New Jersey, for example, strictly limits liquor licenses—so much that the few available often sell for more than a million dollars per license. The value of these limited licenses often benefits certain entrenched interests, in what the Newark Star-Ledger calls “the New Jersey liquor cartel.” This system may be changing, though: Earlier this spring, New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy unveiled a plan for liquor license reform in the state, an effort to create more opportunities to sell beer, wine and liquor.

It remains to be seen whether Gov. Murphy will be successful. But our little damp town could be an ideal model.

You can follow Jason Wilson on Wine Enthusiast and click here to subscribe to his Everyday Drinking newsletter, where you’ll receive regular dispatches on food, travel and culture through the lens of wine and spirits.

The post What It’s Like to Live in a Dry Town appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

In this episode, Jacy Topps sits down with Laura Silverman and Emily Heintz to discuss NA culture and how it’s impacting the drinks business. Silverman is the founder of Zero Proof Nation, a platform highlighting NA beverages and the culture driving their growth. Heintz is the founder of Sèchey, a retail bottle shop specializing in no- and low-alcohol beverages in Charleston.

Listen as Silverman and Heintz discuss the increase of NA spaces; how these spaces promote inclusivity; common misconceptions about the category; and how retailers can better educate consumers and select what goes on their shelves.

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Episode Transcript

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.

Speakers: Jacy Topps, Emily Heintz, Laura Silverman 

Jacy Topps  00:08 

Hello, and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast podcast. You’re serving of drinks culture, and the people who drive it. I’m Jacy Topps. This week, we’re talking about no-low-alcohol culture. The rise of NA spaces, retail stores and beverages suggest that people are drinking less. And not just during dry January and sober October. There’s a growing trend, but has that trend developed into a movement? I sat down with Laura Silverman and Emily Heintz to discuss the phenomenon in the beverage space. Laura is the founder of Zero Proof Nation, an NA resource platform. And Emily is the founder of Sèchey, a retail bottle shop in Charleston, specializing in no-low-alcohol beverages. So, listen on, as we discussed the increase of NA spaces; the common misconceptions about the category; how the alcohol industry can help in a culture and how bottle retailers educate consumers and choose what goes on their shops. 

Jacy Topps  01:16 

Every glass of wine tells a story. These stories reveal a hidden histories, flavors and passions. And sometimes they unravel our darkest desires. And Wine Enthusiast newest podcast. Vinfamous journalists Ashley Smith dissects the underbelly of the wine world. We hear from the people who know what it means when the products of love and care become the source of greed, arson, and even murder. Each episode takes listeners into the mysterious and historic world of winemaking and the crimes that have since become Vinfamous. This podcast pairs well with wine lovers, history nerds and crime junkies alike. So, grab a glass of your favorite wine and follow the podcast to join us as we delve into the twists and turns behind the all-time most shocking line crimes. Follow Vinfamous on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and be sure to follow the show, so you never miss a scandal. New episodes drop every other Wednesday. 

Jacy Topps  02:26 

Hi, I’m Jacy Topps. My guest today is Laura Silverman. Laura is the founder of Zero Proof Nation, a resource platform elevating non-alcoholic beverages, and its lifestyle. Hi, Laura. Welcome. I’m so glad you can join us today.  

Laura Silverman  02:43 

Hi, Jacy! Thanks so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.  

Jacy Topps  02:47 

So your site has been getting a lot of press and I want to kind of know what actually Zero Proof Nation is. So, for our listeners who aren’t familiar, what is Zero Proof Nation? And why did you start it? 

Laura Silverman  03:00 

Oh, that’s a loaded question. So I’ll start with what it is. And then I’ll go into why I started it. Zero Proof Nation is essentially what I like to think of as a fully comprehensive resource hub for the non-alcoholic beverage culture. And the people who drink these beverages. It has directories for non-alcoholic bottle shops, booze, free bars, beverages, of course, which I had started putting a beverage directory together before there was even a such thing as a non-alcoholic bottle shop. And it was back in late 2019, early 2020, before the pandemic, so a lot of these brands were just kind of coming up or selling direct to consumer, and so I wanted to put as many beverages together as I could in different categories. But it started as an Instagram feed where I featured non ALC beverage founders and some people in the space, really focusing on the founders in a world at that time that told them maybe they might have done better or done better business starting an alcohol brand. Because it’s just easier. I wondered why they started non ALC, there’s usually a story involved. Oftentimes there was a story where either the founder or someone close to them had issues with addiction in their family or they just found themselves getting older and wanting to drink less alcohol. They still did drink mindfully but wanted to provide an option that had inclusivity for everyone. And it was just really interesting getting to know people and why they why they cared about non-alcoholic and speaking of why people care I should probably tell you why I care and that’s rooted in my own story. I’m not sure when this will go live but on July 14, I will turn or will have turns depending on the Airing Date. 16 years sober 

Laura Silverman  04:59 

So, I got sober at a very young age at 24. And there were no options for people who didn’t drink for whatever reason. Again, there’s a huge sobriety spectrum out there, whether that means that you’re just not drinking for tonight, or you’re doing like a dry January or sober October. So that’s a month are of course we have our nine-month contingent, the people who are pregnant and need to not drink alcohol. And then people who are taking breaks for longer or permanently, there were no options really to speak of there was I mean, coke, other sodas are duels and club soda, but there really wasn’t anything sophisticated. And if you asked a bartender to make you a quote, mocktail back, then it would probably be like really, really sweet or tart or sugary, an afterthought. It most of these beverages were afterthoughts for people like me and other people in the community. So, it’s really only been in the past five years, or even less that I’ve seen that we’ve seen such a huge rise in non-alcoholic beverages, and adult non-alcoholic beverages. But the reason I created this was for myself, because I wanted a resource. And I knew that if I wanted it, other people might want it too. And it’s just become, it’s become my passion. And interestingly, there are a lot of people in this industry that aren’t sober. They just believe in health and wellness and options for all. So, it’s a little bit more rare these days to find someone like me who’s 100% sober. But I know that most of my audience and community are mindful drinkers who are sober, curious, or they consider themselves alcohol free, but not necessarily in recovery.  

Jacy Topps  06:45 

Thank you for sharing your story. Laura. That’s amazing.  

Laura Silverman  06:49 

My pleasure, my honor.  

Jacy Topps  06:50 

So, like you said, there has been a little bit of a shift and rise. And the numbers don’t lie, right? Like people are consuming alcohol differently, whether it’s lower alcohol or no alcohol. So, I kind of want to know, like your point of view. Do you think that there’s this sober movement, like doing research for this podcast? I was looking was all these articles like the sober movement. So, is there a movement? Or what do you think?  

Laura Silverman  07:24 

Yes, absolutely. It’s had so many different iterations. Up until now, I think we’re really in a place right now where people are drinking less. And I think the pandemic had a lot to do with it for a variety of reasons, obviously. But people are finding themselves in in a in a place where they want to make healthier decisions. And that might not mean going sober altogether, it might mean drinking less, but there is this sober, curious and sober and alcohol free, non alcoholic movement. But it’s definitely afoot, and maybe some people would have thought it was a trend that is going to go away or would have gone away by now. And it’s entirely possible that I mean, this was on the rise for a while pre pandemic slowly. But once the pandemic hit, it kind of took a an exponential, vertical direction going up. And I really don’t think it’s a trend anymore. I think it’s; I think it’s, it might be trendy, but it’s not necessarily something like a fad that’s gonna pass. I think we’re really in a place where hospitality is seeing these adult non alcoholic beverages as a way to make money. And rightly so. If they didn’t have anything on their menus, it would be leaving money on the table. There are so many people that want to space out, drinking alcohol, maybe drink a session cocktail, which would take longer and intersperse that with non alcoholic beverages. And of course, then there are all the people that that don’t drink. So I think we’re really finding ourselves in this heyday of non alcoholic culture, non alcoholic movement, whether we call that a sober movement, sober has a variety of meanings for people, it can be a loaded word for some, but at its core, it’s it just means not intoxicated. So in that sense, in that in that definition, I definitely think there is a huge movement. But let me let me take myself out of the equation for a second. Because it’s all I think, all the time. And I realize that it’s not necessarily mainstream for everyone. However, I think we are starting to and when I say we, I mean, me and the others in the movement. I think we’re really starting to infiltrate into the mainstream, and it’s evident by by all of the press that beverages are getting bars, bottle shops, there’s all these things popping up all the time. I mean, JetBlue the airline recently partnered up with athletic brewing, and they’re having an athletic on some of their flights. You 

Laura Silverman  09:59 

And I really do think that it’s, it’s a steady movement. And people can come and go, they can do a one month, sort of stint in it. And that’s fine too. But if it pl

ants the seed of just becoming a little bit healthier, I’m not here to be a prohibitionist and I and I really do think that there are a lot of people who can drink alcohol safely, and who want to drink wine and beer and spirits, for the for the taste and for what it represents maybe historically, and if there’s any sort of tie to their own culture, but there is evidence that shows that alcohol is, is toxic. And there’s more and more research coming out. Now that is showing that virtually no amount can be considered healthy. That being said, again, I’m not here to, to tell anyone what to do. I’m not here to shame anyone. And frankly, I just want there to be options for everyone. So if I go out with friends who are drinking alcohol, I want there to be options for them to switch off with. But selfishly I want options for myself. And I think we’re finding because this is a movement that now we’re finding that there are more venues out there, there are more retail opportunities to get knocked out whether it’s ecommerce or brick and mortar.  

Jacy Topps  11:16 

Well, I’m glad you brought up actual venues and brick and mortar places. Because you know, for listeners who aren’t familiar, including myself, what is the difference between what like a quote unquote, bar, typical bar and a non alc bar? Is it solely just the drinks that they serve?  

Laura Silverman  11:38 

Yeah, that’s it. It’s just the drinks. You would if you went into any of these booths, free bars, whether it’s a brick-and-mortar place, like sands bar in Austin, or a pop up, like Absence of Proof in New York and the founder, Elizabeth does pop ups all over the country. Now. There are some young girls, young women in LA called Zero Proofed, and they do a lot of pop ups and in LA and really the only thing that’s different is the level of alcohol by volume in the beverages because the vibe is just like in there. The vibe is just like any bar. And there’s a bar for everyone, right? So, there’s like a fancy cocktail bar, there’s a dive bar, there’s a karaoke bar, there’s a gay bar. We’re finding that there are more of these subcultures in booze free bars now. And it’s really something kind of wild to see. So yeah, the only difference is that the beverages served don’t have booze in them, but it’s just the same as any other bar. And it’s for anyone, we’re not saying do you drink alcohol at the door? If you do, you’re not allowed. No, anyone can come in. And it can be a starting place. For some people, it can be an ending place for some people, or it could just be the place to hang out if you decide that you just don’t want to drink alcohol for the night.  

Jacy Topps  12:58 

Yeah, I like that. I think that kind of invokes inclusivity. I think that the food and beverage industry, especially the wine industry has been talking about inclusivity over the last, I don’t know, five years. And we’ve been talking about it in terms of gender and geographical and winemaking and marketing and things of that nature and language. But I guess we haven’t really talked about making sure that there’s space in products for people who don’t drink wine.  

Laura Silverman  13:30 

Hmm. Yeah, that’s, that’s a huge thing, Jacy, Because, you know, I don’t go to wineries anymore. It’s not that I don’t like them. I think they’re beautiful places. They often have good cheeses and mustards and all the charcuteries. But usually wineries, especially the fun independent ones, or are local to the, I guess, to the terroir that you’re in just don’t have the financial capabilities to do alcohol, eyes wine, and

have a non-alcoholic option on their on their tasting menus. And so, they wouldn’t necessarily have flights for people who don’t drink alcohol. But you’ll find them much larger wine brands have that capability built in. And of course, there are a lot of individual brands that are starting out completely non-alcoholic and staying that way. I’m not a scientist or even play one on TV, but there are a variety of ways to make non-alcoholic wine and non-alcoholic beer and some of these some of these companies don’t alkalis in the first place and then D alkalis. They might just use their zoo and unfermented grapes. So, I guess all that is to say that there’s a huge element of inclusivity in the wine industry in the beer industry that is just starting to sort of be uncovered and that is in having non-alcoholic options for people and that includes people who also drinking alcohol, they just might want to drink less. And so it’s always good to offer something else.  

Jacy Topps  15:07 

Yeah. Well, I’m really glad that you brought up the different types of products because I guess beer has always had, like a head start when it comes to no alcohol, a low alcohol, right, like non-alcoholic beer. So I know a lot of people are saying that they’ve had beer that actually tastes like beer. And it’s, you know, it’s not beer, it’s non-alcoholic, or here are the producers getting this right? Is the taste, the smell? If people who like want to do lower alcohol or no alcohol, is the experience still there? Are people get still getting their experience, even though it’s not alcohol? 

Laura Silverman  15:48 

Gosh, that’s such a good question. Because, yes, and. There’s a range of quality and products and I had a really unique experience in London earlier this year, when I was a judge at the inaugural World Alcohol-Free awards were across two days, all of the judges tasted 400 different beverages across a multitude of categories. And I tasted a lot of really good wines, and a lot of OK wines and some pretty bad ones. And of course, they will all be unnamed, mostly because I have no idea what I tried. It was all blind. They’re blind. Competition should be. But there’s really a variety in quality. And there are some really phenomenal producers in my mind. A lot of them are domestic now to the US. But the sort of the, the heartbeat of the non alcoholic beverage movement started in the UK. And there’s a lot of innovation in the UK, you probably have heard of seedlip That was one of the first sort of non-alcoholic adult non-alcoholic spirits if you will. And it’s really a botanical distillate. And there’s a whole category of those now, inspired by seedlip. But there’s a fantastic wine brand that does sparkling and stills based out of the UK called Noughty. And they are they’re phenomenal. I just tried for the first time a Chilean non alcoholic wine brand. And we all know I believe we all know that Chile has pretty phenomenal wine. A lot of wines come from Chile, but not a lot of non-alcoholic wines do and so, I mean, I should just let all of the listeners know that I haven’t had alcohol in almost 16 years, essentially 16 years. So I don’t really remember the mouthfeel of it. I don’t remember how it necessarily made me feel. But I do kind of remember tastes and textures and effervescence. And in that regard. I think a lot of producers are getting it right. And if they’re not getting it right in their first production, they listen to feed back and they get it right the next time. And I know that a lot of beverage producers are small and large and also sort of the crossover alcoholic. The big guys in big alcohol but they many of them have non-alcoholic wings to their company. So of course, we’ve got you know, Heineken and Heineken zero and Tanqueray has Tanqueray, zero, Martini and Rossi have their zero lines. So a lot of big companies are producing non-alcoholic too. But in terms of wine, I really do think that there are some people that are just nailing it. And it’s really, it’s really cool to see. And it’s really cool to taste, obviously, all of these new products. And there’s just all this innovation that’s constantly happening. And so I think the mark of a good, really good producer. And a really good organization is one that listens to feedback from, from its audience. And if something’s not working quite right to iterate and reiterate and make sure that it that it’s right the next time but there’s a lot of good stuff out there. And people can check out my site for some for some inspiration, but there’s tons of bottle shops, individual bottle shops, and also you know, if you go to big box wine stores like Total Wine and more does a lot of really great stuff in the spirits, mixers and non-alcoholic beer. I think there’s still a way to go with their non-alcohol wine selection, but they’re starting to I think they just brought in a couple of brands that I drink myself. 

Jacy Topps  19:29 

Yeah. So do you think that the booze industry, the brand’s the media? Are we helping or are we hurting, or should we get out of the way? What do you think? 

Laura Silverman  19:42 

Wow! I don’t think the alcohol industry is hurting the non-alcoholic industry. I think there are some things that could be done to better enable coexisting and making sure that there’s that element of inclusivity. So there’s a lot of, I don’t know, if you’ve heard of just the low alcohol movement as well there’s, there’s no and low. So there’s, there’s the opportunity to go sort of have these with certain spirits, for instance. And there’s a brand out there called Spirit lists that essentially has that as their motto, it’s less as Yes, and go have these, you know, mix foolproof whiskey with half zero-proof whiskey. And that’s a way to sort of work together with both alcohol companies and non-alcoholic companies. I also think that, you know, just like, most non-alcoholic beverage companies are likely not going to go into producing alcohol, a lot of alcoholic companies are not necessarily going to open their portfolio to non alkyne. That’s okay, too. But for those that are able to, and are interested in having sort of another wing to their company, I think it would be great to listen to the non alc movement. 

Laura Silverman  21:00 

And many and many are, and the very, very nature that I’m on a Wine Enthusiast podcast means that you’re listening, and I appreciate it, I definitely think there’s more opportunity to work together and to sort of promote a healthier way of drinking. And that doesn’t necessarily mean eradicating doesn’t mean eradicating alcohol, but just encouraging trying new things. And I think that’s a diplomatic way of saying that there’s still a ways to go, but there’s not any overt hate towards the non-alcoholic movement. And if anything, we’re bringing more customers to bars and restaurants that might feel kind of ousted, or just feel like they’re not included with a seat at the table. But we’re, we’re by having options on menus by having options in a company’s range. There will be more devoted followers, there’ll be more people drinking beverages at the end of the day. Yeah, I think that’s a good point. You know, and I think that being part of the media, I think that language is really important. I know, you talked about basically, calling it has these are or basically saying that, you know, there are certain alcohol that’s healthy, and then there, you know, like, it’s not, you know, then I think here at one enthusiast that we’ve actually get that right. You know, if if people want to consume alcohol, that’s, that, by all means, but don’t call it healthy because it’s not healthy. It’s for your enjoyment. And that’s just what so I think, I think that language is a really big part of how people sometimes I end, I feel like language can get in the way and it can definitely hurt the situation. So, I would, I think that’s kind of where my question came from, like, is the language that we’re using better in Canada get better? I think it can absolutely get better. And there’s, you know. 

Laura Silverman  22:57 

A lot of people out there have feelings about the word mocktail. I’m one of the people that has some feelings about it, but I don’t hate the word I just don’t really use it in my own in my own life. Because for me again, I’m speaking on my own behalf no one else’s that it just kind of connotes somewhat of a kiddie beverage or, or something that is an afterthought. Now there’s sort of like the new mocktail which is the type of mixed cocktail that doesn’t have any kind of spirit analogues as Derek Brown, of mindful mixology says he calls them analog so like it doesn’t have a non-alcoholic whiskey, or rum or gin or whatever. It’s just like botanicals and maybe juices and alcohol, free bitters or something it might just be crafted without any kind of alcoholic analog intention. But then for the for the drinks that do you use those analog spirits. I prefer calling them just cocktail-, non alcoholic cocktails na cocktails. Zero proof you have to be somewhat careful with that even though I know I’m zero proof nation because if a brand is going to call themselves zero proof, they better hope that there’s 0.0 ABV just because there are some people drinking these beverages that are very highly attuned to having alcohol in their system, whether it’s related to a history of addiction, or there might be some allergies and or people who observe halal, they can’t have any kind of alcohol content. So there’s there definitely needs to be more massaging and attention toward language as as it pertains to describing these beverages. But there’s also regulatory issues too. And I believe you can’t call an a beer and a beer on the label. I think you have to call like a non-alcoholic brew or a malt beverage or something based on FDA regs. So that’s a whole other podcast. There’s a lot what a lot around language for sure. And 

Laura Silverman  25:04 

I like what’s going on in the alcoholic space. I mean I’m I watch things I see things and I think there’s a lot of really good that’s happening with more diverse producers with more attention toward sustainability. And I think there’s a lot of that in the non-alcoholic beverage scene too. And we care about a lot of the same values. And, and then for people who are in non-health, we kind of go one step further, because many, but certainly not all are many beverages are healthy. But I can’t do a blanket statement and say that every single non-alcoholic beverage is healthy. I mean, there’s sugar content, there’s preservatives, there’s this there’s that it’s up to every individual drinker to be discerning about what they put in their system. Yeah, I agree with that. This is the lifestyle for you. And for many others, do you think that this is going to be a trend that goes away? Like, not for you and other people, but as far as marketing and media, and we were talking about it now? Is this going to go away? Are we going to stop talking about this? Or is this going to be forever, I don’t think it’s going to go away, I think we’re going to see the curve, normalize a little bit. And it already is starting to. So I’m kind of looking mentally at this graph of sort of the rise of non-alcoholic beverages pre pandemic, and it was always rising, but it was very, very glacial and almost horizontal, when the pandemic hit, it almost shot up immediately vertically. And everyone got on that bandwagon for a variety of reasons, like I touched on before, whether it was because alcohol brands couldn’t ship directly to consumers. And we were all sort of at home. And they had to produce different products that were non-alcoholic or non-alcoholic products were just kind of forming and coming to be by other producers. The curve definitely like took a sharp, straight up turn, I’m not making sense, but the graph kind of shot up. And now what we’re seeing is a little bit more of a normalizing of that of that curve, so to speak. It’s still increasing and decreasing a lot more than it was pre pandemic, but it’s not sort of the same exponential vertical growth as it was before. But I mean, all of the stats out there, everyone is doing statistics related to these beverages are showing that the valuation is just out the roof. I mean, I think there was a statistic out there by like, 2034, it’ll be like in the trillions or something. I don’t know, please don’t quote me on that. But it’s, it’s definitely not going away. For sure whether or not it’s as in the forefront of everyone’s mind, it may it may taper back a little bit. It’s still kind of novel and new. Even though for me, it feels like it’s been going on for years and years, I look back and it’s just, it’s pretty nascent in sort of what we’re seeing now. But I don’t think it’s going away at all. And I think if anything, people are seeing that they want to drink less, maybe they’re not going to give it up entirely. That’s okay. But maybe they just want to drink less, and they want options for weeknights. Maybe they don’t want to drink on a weeknight, but they want to have an Aperol Spritz, well, they can have that they can have like Wilburton, bittersweet, Aperitivo. And they can have something with Tennyson or Pathfinder, or all these phenomenal brands out there that provide the same experience, the same taste profile, the same ritual without any risk of a hangover. So, I definitely think we’re still going to see it increase. Maybe, maybe there won’t be press about it every single day, but maybe there will be I hope there. And for everyone, to everyone.  

Jacy Topps  28:55 

Laura, I have one more question for you. Of course, what was what’s in your glass? What are you drinking these days?  

Laura Silverman  29:02 

Oh, gosh, so many different things. And I thought you might ask that. So, I’m a little bit embarrassed to tell you that it’s not that exciting. Right now I’m drinking liquid IV from a water bottle because I just worked out and I have to stay hydrated and have lots of electrolytes, but I am loving. I’m loving our RTDs and na beers and just kind of cracking open a can. I had a can of health aid passionfruit and tangerine kombucha earlier today, but I am probably definitely going to have some sort of beer tonight. I love my friends at athletics. I’m also really loving go brewing out of Chicago. They’re doing some really phenomenal things. And they’re solely a non alcoholic brewery. And I also really enjoy wines with dinner and cooking and it’s just kind of fun to feel like I’m a grown up and have that kind of a ritual to so I have five bar carts and a beverage fridge now. I get sent a lot, of course, but I also, I also buy a fair amount and I’m trying to buy less because I have to go through what I have. But there’s so many different categories out there for just about any, any mood. Functional, as you probably know, is having a huge movement right now functional beverages are everywhere. Yeah, I have something different for whatever mood I’m in. And I do want to give a shout out to pink cloud beverages because I am loving their CBD cocktails inspired by flavors of Hawaii. And it’s sort of what it reminds me of like spindrift, but with Hawaiian flavors and CBD as well. So there’s just a lot of good stuff out there. And it’s a really fun place to, to discover and explore.  

Jacy Topps  30:56 

Thank you so much, Laura, for joining us. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.  

Laura Silverman  31:00 

Oh, thank you so much. It’s been a treat. 

Jacy Topps  31:08 

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Jacy Topps  32:11 

My next guest is Emily Heintz. Emily is the founder of Schey, a beverage retail store based in Charleston, South Carolina. Welcome Emily. I’m so glad you can join us today.  

Emily Heintz  32:22 

Thank you for having me.  

Jacy Topps  32:24 

So Sèchey is a retail shop. Can you explain what actually you specialize in and why you decided to open the store? 

Emily Heintz  32:34 

Sure. So Schey is a nod to the French word for dry. So, we specialize in alternative beverages, which could be anything from dealcoholize wine, beer, distilled spirits about alcohol to functional beverages. And we designed such a as a retailer around the celebration, and socialization and connection, but not necessarily around alcohol. It’s really about providing alternatives for us to celebrate and socialize without leveraging alcohol.  

Jacy Topps  33:08 

Okay, great. And I know that we at wine enthusiast has kind of given you a couple of nods as well, as far as you know, a beverage a non-alcoholic beverage store to try to check out. 

Laura Silverman  33:24 

I find that wine is an excellent way to start your sober, curious journey and just to think about alcohol in a different way. Because you still get a lot of the benefits, you know, from pouring wine into your glass but not a lot. Not a lot of the negative effects.  

Jacy Topps  33:43 

Okay, great. So my previous guest, Laura Silverman, who you I know, are familiar with. I think she did a great job and enlightening us as far as about that non-alcohol beverages. But I wanted to get your perspective because you are in retail. Do you have you seen an uptick in interest in non-alcohol? Or is like the demand higher these days?  

Emily Heintz  34:09 

The demand is absolutely higher. We’re right on King Street. So, they get a lot of traffic and visitors to Charleston. So they’ll walk in thinking we are a traditional bottle shop and it’s amazing to see the surprise that we carry alternative options and the alcohol, eyes wine and beer. But then we also have the customers who are looking specifically for alternatives that seek us out. And there’s I would say there is equally equal enthusiasm across both groups. Because while they’ve, you know, they probably do drink alcohol, they’re looking for options. And recognizing that there are other options out there. It’s just about finding them and the convenience of them. 

Jacy Topps  34:55 

So you sell products that are no alcohol, obviously. Do you also sell products that are lower ABV? 

Emily Heintz  35:04 

So certain states, you’re required to get a beer and wine license, even if the ABV is below point 5%. So right now we carry 95% alcohol-free products that fit that 100.5%. But we do get requests for low alcohol. So we’ve started to carry traditional wine to complement the assortment from a convenience factor. And we really want to embrace everyone’s relationship with or without alcohol. And we found that that was the best way to get customers to come in is to really offer them a variety. So that’s a state-by-state thing. It is a state-by-state thing. Yes, but technically Sechey is a concept for the alcohol flexible. So the majority of our customers do you have some kind of relationship with alcohol and are just looking for options like different tools in their chest? Right, like maybe they’re going out to a work event? And we’d like to get up early the next morning, so they choose a dealcoholized version of wine or a cocktail with spirit free tequila for their evening.  

Jacy Topps  36:17 

I’m curious, I know, cannabis, obviously a state by state these days and obviously I know South Carolina does not legalize THC. Do you have any products that are had to have CBD.  

Jacy Topps  36:31 

So we do we carry CBD and functional beverages, which really is a category that includes nootropic adaptogens, plant based Botanic. And in fact, in South Carolina, Delta Eight and Delta Nine are legal. So we do have THC but it is the type of THC that was legalized in the 2018 Farm Bill, which is specific to Delta nine it’s a hemp derived THC product and Delta Eight which is synthetic THC.  

Jacy Topps  37:03 

Okay, that’s I didn’t know that.  

Emily Heintz  37:07 

I would say like, equally to people coming in looking for alternatives. Without alcohol, we have people coming in looking for a functional beverage, which we categorize as a product that would give you a replicate the feeling that alcohol might give you whether it’s like creating a buzz or relax, you help you sleep down all of those. So, the THC products fall in that category.  

Jacy Topps  37:32 

I’m pretty curious about this, because I feel like you know, I talked to Laura previously. And she said that she feels it’s definitely a movement like the no alcohol is definitely a movement. Do you feel, I know your background is in sales? Do you feel that part of that movement is because of the legalization of cannabis lately? Or is it just people who are just kind of wanting no alcohol?  

Emily Heintz  38:00 

I think that during COVID, and this is just my personal experience, and the stories that people have shared, you know, we all relied a little bit too heavily on alcohol and emerged from COVID Wanting to socialize but also recognizing the negative effects that traditional alcohol have on your sleep on your body, on your mood. And we’re looking for alternatives. And then, you know, as we emerge from COVID, as well, and the 2018 farm bill and the legalization of cannabis, those two movements are converging. So you’re really seeing the impact today and someone likes to shave our retail assortment which covers both. We want to carry a variety and you choose how you want to celebrate whether it’s with cannabis, dealcoholized product or traditional alcohol. How do you find new brands? Well, I am always in the market looking for new brands based on my personal preferences. But I recognize that, you know, those are also limited. So we tend to ask for recommendations from customers, we look through Instagram, some of the brands that I already work with will recommend other brands. And then as Sechey has created, you know, ourselves as a leader in the movement, brands will come to us, thanks to you know, Wine Enthusiast and others who have put us out there as an alcohol-free alternative bottle shop, but it’s a constant. There’s so many great options, whittling them down and curating them is the hardest part because what I might like might not be what someone else likes, but we want to have a variety where someone feels like there’s there is a product for them that they can incorporate into their drinking routine.  

Jacy Topps  39:46 

That’s great. You know, also like I know the wine and beer industry. There has been lots of talk about inclusivity and diversity and do those things matter? Basically, when you’re stocking your shelf. Are you interested in women lead products or producers that are people of color or LGBTQ? Does that matter for you as a brand? 

Emily Heintz  40:11 

It does matter. And I do try to be diverse. The traditional alcohol industry is incredibly male dominated. So, I find it really refreshing to be able to support brands new to the beverage space. So we carry it all we carry brands specific to LGBTQ, we have a lot of female founded brands, women of color, I think I’d like to continue to expand that assortment and even designate areas where we can highlight those founders because people want to support these independent brands that just have a fantastic hero product and a wonderful story behind them. And it’s hard to sift through the number of brands to find them. And we want to make sure we’re putting them at the forefront in our store.  

Jacy Topps  40:55 

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think inclusivity also can include people who are drinking no alcohol or or lower alcohol. So I think that’s a good conversation to like inclusivity can mean people who are not drinking.  

Emily Heintz  41:10 

Exactly. Judgment free is really why I started Sèchey, I wanted a place where you could walk in regardless of a relationship with alcohol and find something that you’ve loved. And by increasing the awareness, the availability and then the education of these products, were actually able to, to service you like hey, what do you normally like to drink? Let’s talk about it. Like what do you love about that? What do you not like? Do you want low sugar? Is 0% Alcohol important to you? You know, is it just about like, one night a week? And you’re want to pour from a cannon make it easy? Or do you want the celebration around making a cocktail from amazing high-quality ingredients?  

Jacy Topps  41:50 

So especially here at Wine Enthusiast, we don’t like misinformation as far as calling alcohol healthy. Alcohol is to be enjoyed. But we need to realize that it’s not healthy. Are some of these products that are alcohol free? Would you consider them healthier?  

Emily Heintz  42:12 

Yeah, it’s a great question. It depends on how you classify healthy, because you do really need to be aware of consumer and look at the ingredients and the can just because it doesn’t have alcohol does not mean it’s healthy for you, there could be a lot of hidden sugar, there could be something added to the beverage that make it shelf stable even that you may want to just be aware of. But in general, when you remove alcohol from a product, you’re going to reduce the sugar content and reduce the calories. So you could broadly classify alcohol free is healthier. It just depends on you know the exact ingredients. So, we really try to educate our associates and our working on. Same with our E commerce like taking you through a journey based on the ingredients because you know, like as you shop and grocery, like gluten sometimes can trigger grapefruit and trigger, you know, generations that are taking medication. So, we’re really hyper aware and are working towards ways to make it easier for customers to shop the assortment based on their preference and on the ingredients in the beverage.  

Jacy Topps  43:30 

Okay, that’s great. What about innovation? Have you seen like, how are these spirits and wine? How do they taste? Do they taste like traditional wine or traditional spirits? Is the mouthfeel similar?  

Emily Heintz  43:44 

Yeah, that’s a good question too. And all this, you know, every product is different. So, I will speak to wine specifically. First, we’re really in wine 2.0 where the innovation has caught up to the flavor. And you can really find enjoyable red wines or white wines that are similar to their traditional counterparts. 

Emily Heintz  44:12 

For the mouthfeel and spirits, that’s the second category people are usually looking for, it’s a little bit harder. We do have some brands that have added some magic to the liquid that does replicate mouthfeel that it will taste great on its own over the rocks. But in general, the spirits you want to mix into a cocktail or with club soda or into your favorite drink. And I think we’re on the cusp of wine 3.0 where the innovation in the category has come along so far that winemakers are looking at the grape differently and the vine differently and knowing that they’re making a wine that’s going to be the alcohol lized or like how do you skip the dealcoholize product from the beginning and create a wine that meets the needs of the delocalization without actually having to go through the process because it’s a pretty complex process. And then I’m also speaking with some producers that haven’t yet to come to the US and just trying to support them because I love what they’re doing with the terroir or the grape or the process and making the wine that I find really innovative. So I’m excited to see what comes because I personally am a wine drinker. I always have been and I don’t think I’ll ever not be. So that is the most exciting thing for me right now. It’s like seeing where we’re going with wine. 

Jacy Topps  45:34 

 Yeah, that’s, I feel like you know, beer has had a huge head start right, like there’s been nonalcoholic or low alcohol beer for years. So wine is a whole different process.  

Emily Heintz  45:48 

It is and and that’s a great point. You know, the fermentation arrested fermentation for beer and just the innovation, the category true Headstart, that’s why you’re seeing, you know, alcohol free beer or beer made with point 5% ABV. Very easy to find, and really easy to find brands that do really well and why you’re seeing someone like athletic Brewing Company has major investment from Dr. Pepper, Keurig, because it is widely accepted now.  

Jacy Topps  46:19 

 Does your store offer a lot of tastings and events for people to become familiar with alternative drinking?  

Emily Heintz  46:26 

Yes, so because of my background in retail, and my understanding of, you know, how people shop, and US Post COVID really wanting to go someplace to experience we’ve created a tasting salon, in our stores where you can come in. And there’s a bar setup, where the brands can do tastings where we can, you know, actually, like highlight the products, because most people don’t know what these products tastes like, and want to want to experiment with it right? Like I don’t want to commit to buying a $50 bottle of spirits without understanding what an alcohol free 10 Tastes like. And we’ll continue that and are such a flagships. We don’t want to be just a resource for the products, how we really want to be like 360 educations, including the tasting. Yeah, that’s a great point.  

Jacy Topps  47:13 

You have E commerce, so people who are not in South Carolina can still enjoy your products as well.  

Emily Heintz  47:19 

We do. We have actually, we started the business with just ecommerce before I had a store, and I was actually just delivering locally around Charleston to see if people cared about alcohol free products. And they did and then we opened a store. So phase two first Sechey is taking that ecommerce experience that exists and just elevating it the way that you would walk into our physical store and have just an amazing experience.  

Jacy Topps  47:47 

Awesome. Well, Emily, I just have one more question for you. What’s in your glass? What are you drinking these days?  

Emily Heintz  47:54 

That’s great question. Well, it’s warm here in Charleston. I really love alcohol free rose. And Groovy is in a little glass bottle I drink they’re dry rose I also love Prima Pavé and French Bloom both have excellent sparkling roses. Joyce is another favorite. So, I mean, I could go on. But like if you haven’t tried the dealcoholized wine, a sparkling rose a is a great place to start because it’s very similar to traditional rose.  

Jacy Topps  48:27 

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us.  

Emily Heintz  48:30 

It’s been such a pleasure. Thank you, nice speaking, with you. 

Jacy Topps  48:38 

Whether it’s for a week, a month, or for the foreseeable future, people are choosing to drink less. The beverage industry has been having conversations surrounding inclusivity for a while now. But those conversations really haven’t included the no low alcohol trend until very recently. Maybe it’s time those inclusivity conversations include mindful drinking and NA culture. What are your thoughts? If you like today’s episode, we’d love to read your reviews and hear what you think. You can email us your comments and questions at podcast at Wine Enthusiast. dotnet. And hey, why not tell your wine loving friends to check us out to remember, you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google Spotify and anywhere else you listen to podcast. You can also go to wine enthusiast.com backslash podcast. For more episodes and transcripts. I’m Jacy Topps. Thanks for listening. 

The post Is the Sober Curious Movement a Fad or Here to Stay? appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.

That’s not to say that zero-proof cocktails are an afterthought. At Sans Bar, the menu is peppered with complex concoctions, from the Longhorn cocktail, a zingy blend of mango, habanero and a lemon-cucumber-serrano non-alcoholic (NA) spirit, to the herbaceous Sage and Sound, which features NA gin, sage, aromatic bitters and tonic. These drinks and others like them have proven so popular that since the first Sans Bar opened in 2017, Marshall has added several other locations throughout Texas.

Additional NA watering holes have sprouted up since. According to Zero Proof Nation, a platform that highlights bars and bottle shops specializing in NA options, there are currently more than 25 NA-dedicated bars in the U.S., with that number steadily growing. What’s more, consumers spent $3.3 billion on no- and low-alcohol products in 2021 alone, according to Nielsen data. Zero-proof tasting rooms and pop-up events across the country are on the rise, too.

All of these things suggest that the popularity of NA products and spaces may extend well-beyond trends like Dry January or Sober October. The age of mainstream sobriety may very well be upon us.

But without alcohol, can these establishments credibly call themselves bars? Many of the beverage pros we interviewed certainly think so. Here’s how establishments and pop-up events around the country are creating top-notch bar experiences—minus the hangover.

Crafting a Sense of Community

You can have a drink alcoholic or otherwise anywhere you please, be it your home, the park or a restaurant, Marshall explains. But bars are about more than imbibing.

“A bar is a place where people gather in community,” he says. While non-alcoholic bottle shops are also booming, they’re not always communal spaces.

“The bar in our culture provides a social space that’s needed to facilitate interactions you wouldn’t have in, say, a restaurant or coffee shop,” notes Justin Mendoza, a health and wellness coach and psychotherapist who frequents Volstead by Unity, Philadelphia’s first zero-proof bar. “For someone who, for whatever reason, doesn’t drink, is shifting their relationship with alcohol or supports someone who’s made that choice, having the ‘bar’ space but knowing it’s free of any alcohol can be liberating.”

Compared to regular bars or nightclubs, non-alcoholic nightlife can for some be a more welcoming community, notes Elizabeth Gascoigne, founder & CEO of New York City-based Absence of Proof. When she stopped drinking in 2022, “there was a huge adjustment in my social life,” she recalls. Finding ways to enjoy the Big Apple’s vibrant nightlife scene sans-alcohol was an uphill battle, Gascoigne found. So she created her own space.

“At first, I was all about the drinks, but what’s more important to us now is the community we’re building,” she explains. “We don’t want it to be a cool-kid place, we want people to leave with friends they might not have had before they came.”

That said, Absence of Proof’s spaces are pretty cool. From speakeasies to clubs, the operation’s NA pop-up events feature all the trappings of scene-y bars, including mood lighting, loud music, a well-heeled crowd and bartenders mixing up beverages like NA lychee martinis or spicy NA margaritas. Clearly she’s doing something right: In less than a year, Gascoigne has expanded Absence of Proof to Los Angeles, Seattle and Detroit.

The clientele at NA spaces can be varied, which helps further cement a bar vibe. Hekate in New York City’s East Village, for example, attracts an especially wide range of customers, from curious out-of-towners to people who don’t drink for religious reasons. Among the standard clientele are people on first dates, teenagers, NYU students and more, says head bartender Nette Moreno.

“It really feels like a bar,” she explains, especially when patrons are shifting tables and making friends. “I know it’s a successful night if people played musical chairs.”

Creating Atmosphere Through Design and Décor

The fact that many zero-proof bars look like regular bars is not an accident. At Volstead, which is also a vegan restaurant, there’s a custom-made, live-edge wood bar top with shelves of glistening bottles behind it. Having this traditional set-up is both a familiar sight and enables customers to easily see the rapidly growing number of non-alcoholic spirits, wines, beers and bitters on offer.

“The decor is very much like a traditional bar, but also what you would expect in an upscale vegan restaurant in a hip urban neighborhood,” says Mendoza. At Volstead, that translates to moody dark green walls and black and gold accents, plus a greenery-covered accent wall. “In my view, it helps make being sober or sober curious more appealing and accessible.”

A similar sentiment is behind the design of Sans Bar, explains Aranzasu De La Mora, founder of Aranzasu Design + Build, which designed the space. “The bar is meant to look and feel like a regular bar, only with the subtle twist of removing the option [or] pressure to have alcohol,” says De La Mora, who’s also designed drinking spots, clubs and restaurants in Austin, San Antonio and Tulum.

“I wanted the space to be inclusive [and] inviting to the customer that had typically spent time in traditional bars” he says.

To that end, De La Mora kept all but one of the original brick walls in the 150-year-old building that Sans occupies, adding a mural by a local artist to give the space an authentic Austin vibe. The décor also features intimate lighting and a bar accentuated with emerald tiles. This focus on traditional bar-like aesthetics applies to the drinks themselves, too.

“There’s a big difference between having a Coca-Cola and having an NA cocktail,” notes Gascoigne. When creating her pop-ups, small details like glassware and garnishes make a difference.

Making It the ‘Real Thing’

Expert staff also contribute to giving NA bars more legitimacy. “I believe in hiring bartenders who still drink alcohol because it’s been 16 years since my last drink,” Marshall divulges. A bartender with the palate of a traditional mixologist helps ensure that Sans Bar’s offerings are on par with alcoholic offerings at respected mainstream cocktail dens.

In fact, all of the bars mentioned in this story employ bartenders with traditional bar backgrounds. (Volstead also employs those in recovery and returning from incarceration).

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“I feel really lucky [that] I have an awesome team of bartenders,” says Gascoigne. “A lot of bartenders, this is their craft and they’re not interested in the NA space. We want people who are passionate about mixology, but open to and excited about NA.”

At the end of the day, the most successful NA establishments deliver a traditional bar experience. “Sans Bar feels like a bar because it is one,” says Allison Cole, a regular patron. “There are bartenders, a curated menu, music [and] people out enjoying themselves—it’s a bar. People going out to bars are seeking to fulfill a need, at least I know I am. At Sans, beyond the drinks and music, I find connection and community.”

Of course, one key difference remains. “We aren’t seeking to go out and lose ourselves,” Cole says. “We are instead present.”

The post As More Drinkers Ditch Booze, Non-Alcoholic Bars Offer Essential Social Spaces appeared first on Wine Enthusiast.